Author Topic: what little stove?  (Read 4633 times)

Blodwyn Pig

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what little stove?
« on: April 09, 2018, 11:22:04 am »
MSR pocket rocket 2? prob only for heating water, or simple fry up, Triangia is too much bulk I think.  New to all this. ???   canister compatibiliity?

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 12:40:22 pm »
The small canister-top stoves are mostly pretty much the same.
You may like to consider burner size and pot supports against your pan size - a bigger burner spreads the heat out more, reducing the tendency for things to burn on, but used with a small pan you lose heat round the side.
Some have piezo ignition, which is nice when it's working, but reportedly has a tendency to break.

Ones that are different from normal that you may like to think about are...
Optimus Crux - the burner folds flat enough to allow it to fit in the recess in the base of a 220g canister, in a pan. May be slightly wobbly as a result.
MSR Superfly & Primus Duo stoves - allow the use of blue Camping Gaz canisters as well as regular threaded ones.

I prefer the remote canister/hose versions like this Alpkit Koro, which allows the canister to be turned over to combat the loss of power you get at the end of the canister or in cold weather. The preheat loop (brass-coloured tube next to the burner) is necessary to allow this - not all hose-connected stoves have it.

Threaded canisters are pretty much all interchangeable. The only exception is that Coleman canisters can occasionally not work with non-Coleman stoves - the valve is set fractionally deeper.

The blue Camping Gaz canisters don't have screw threads on the valve, and can't be used with stoves that attach using the threads. These are much more common than threaded canisters on the near continent (i.e. many/most supermarkets, rather than just outdoor shops).

If using a canister-top stove, it's useful to get some feet for the canister to assist with stability. I prefer the MSR version

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 01:04:44 pm »
what about the little Esbit ones?

Karla

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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 01:34:30 pm »
I recently got a Soto Amicus - similar to a Pocket Rocket but with a piezo and a larger burner, and apparently harder to blow out.  I haven't used it yet though so can't confirm any of that.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 01:42:16 pm »
MSR pocket rocket 2? prob only for heating water, or simple fry up, Triangia is too much bulk I think.  New to all this. ???   canister compatibiliity?

If you're looking for something small without a connecting house, I can highly recommend the Soto Amicus stove, I have the version without the built in piezo ignition (I didn't want it), but it's available with that, if preferred. It's surprisingly good

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/stoves-c12/all-stoves-c145/soto-amicus-stove-p7354

I actually use an MSR Wind Pro II most of the time, though, as generally prefer remote canister stoves, and it's still small enough to fit into my MSR Titan cookset:
https://www.msrgear.com/windpro-ii

Regarding canister compatibility in general, you can get adapters that let you use Camping Gaz blue cylinders on stoves with Coleman-type threads. The one for using threaded Camping Gaz cyclinders is relatively small (e.g. https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/edelrid-ventilkartuschen-adapter/ ), the one for using the pierce-able non-threaded cylinders is much larger and heavier and must stay attached to the gas cylinder until it's empty (https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/stoves-c12/stove-accessories-c132/puncture-cartridge-adaptor-p390 - looks like this one is discontinued, though).



Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2018, 01:42:51 pm »
Esbits are popular with squaddies, but AIUI really only useful for heating water and ration packs. IIRC the tablets aren't particularly cheap (unless HMG's picking up the tab, of course!)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2018, 01:50:54 pm »
If you're mostly heating water, how about a Jetboil-type thing?
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2018, 03:35:06 pm »
Snow Peak Giga Power 2, with or without the piezo ignitor. The piezo ignitor on mine broke distressingly quickly. If the respective company's websites are to be believed, the Snow Peak GigaPower runs longer on a given canister than the Pocket rocket. 4 pot supports instead of 3 and an optional heat reflector/windscreen are two more nice touches for this stove. MSR (and possibly others) sell little piezo ignitors separately, which is what I now prefer. Like Andrew_s says, the MSR canister support is excellent.

The threaded canisters are becoming more common everywhere, as MSR Pocket Rockets become more ubiquitous.

Remote canisters and the option to invert the canister for liquid feed improve cold weather performance, extend burn time for a given canister, and make a close fitting wind screen a safer option. They do add cost, weight and bulk, though.

JetBoil type things boil water quickly, but they only work with the pots and pans designed for your particular Jetboil thing. The MSR Windburner system seems to do better in windy conditions than the Jetboils, from what I've heard.

The extremely cheap gas stoves with bigger burner heads frequently do not have a pressure regulator. The flame gets progressively weaker quickly, and they don't burn as long on a given canister. The regulator on the more expensive stoves (Pocket Rocket, GigaPower, Crux, etc.) maintains an even flame almost through the life of the canister, and makes for a longer burn time for a given canister.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2018, 04:04:29 pm »
I never got on with the Jetboil although quick to boil it is bulky and very limited. I have a few different stoves but the canister top one I think is the best is the Fire Maple https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/stoves-c12/gas-stoves-c140/fire-maple-fms-116t-gas-stove-p1268. It boils water very quickly and seems more economical with gas than the Pocket Rocket.
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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2018, 05:33:05 pm »
4 pot supports instead of 3
That's more a disadvantage than an advantage.
Any pan will sit solidly on 3 supports, but if either the pan or the 4 supports aren't properly level, there's be wobble (same as stools or tables on uneven pub floors).

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2018, 05:49:34 pm »

Doing a fry up on a canister top stove when half asleep is a recipe for spilling bacon on the grass...

Remote canister stoves lower the centre of gravity, reducing this risk. But at the cost of extra weight and bulk.

Personally I have 2 stoves I use regularly. A Primus Omnilite Ti. This burns everything but meths, is stable, controllable, and expensive.

The other stove I use is the Zelph Starlyte. This is a meths stove, simple, rugged, stupidly light. No control, but for ease of use when boiling water (frying on it would be interesting...), it's hard to beat.

J
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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2018, 07:07:48 pm »
An alpkit kraku stove with an MSR pietzo lighter. It can store inside a pan or titanium mug with a gas canister.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Wowbagger

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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2018, 11:33:32 pm »
I just bought one of these and I think it's brilliant.

https://www.alpkit.com/products/koro

Haven't used it outside yet.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 01:02:01 am »
I just bought one of these and I think it's brilliant.

https://www.alpkit.com/products/koro

I have a remote canister stove that was an emergency purchase on account of a car packing cockup leading to barakta tea deprivation.  Works well enough, but it seems to occupy a slightly disappointing middle ground between a stove like the Koro with a pre-heat loop, and the super-compact canister-top models.

To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 08:15:13 am »
I am tending to favour the Alpkit Koro ATM, just wish it had a wee stand like the MSR liquigas one.but how long does the gas last, ie how many brew ups, and how many spares would you need to carry(I know, depends how long your away for) but the faff of finding a shop if you run out. ?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 09:01:01 am »
I am tending to favour the Alpkit Koro ATM, just wish it had a wee stand like the MSR liquigas one.but how long does the gas last, ie how many brew ups, and how many spares would you need to carry(I know, depends how long your away for) but the faff of finding a shop if you run out. ?

Depends also on the temperature, wind, and air pressure.

The only stove I have stats for is the alpkit jetboil clone, that boils 500ml of water in 2 minutes on 5-6gm of fuel.

As for getting the spare canisters. It depends where you are.

The standard gas canister is not as standard as you might think, in France it is more common to find the piercable camping gaz canisters. You will also find that many supermarkets sell meths. This is one of the reasons I have a multifuel stove and a stupidly compact/light meths stove, to cover all bases.

Open a map, close your eyes, point at the map, find the nearest village, and work out what fuel you can get in that village. This gives you an idea of what stove fuel to use.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Wowbagger

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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 10:39:19 am »
You can carry an adaptor which allows Coleman-style stoves to use the continental non-pierce canisters.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 10:41:04 am »
You can carry an adaptor which allows Coleman-style stoves to use the continental non-pierce canisters.

At which point your adaptor weighs the same as your stove...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Wowbagger

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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2018, 10:42:13 am »
Possibly, but since they are both so light it's a bit like taking a full rather than a half-full canister with you.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2018, 12:04:27 pm »
If you're mostly heating water, how about a Jetboil-type thing?
I like my Jetboil, not the lightest, smallest, fastest, but for my use just so totally faff free and convenient.  That it all fits together, inc fuel and tea bags in a clean package means it often fills the space previously occupied by a flask.  That it locks together means I don't even need a level surface to use it and holding on to it in operation acts as a great hand warmer.  When considering weight and size, efficiency also needs to be taken into account, the design allows me to take a smaller canister than I used to for the same use.
IMO it is just a water boiler, I've tried to use it for other stuff, even buying the pan adaptor and group pot, they were disappointing and have sat unused since their one and only tour. I wouldn't like to attempt a fry up with one, I'm sure it's possible but there's better options if that's on the menu.

Karla

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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2018, 12:23:38 pm »
In the US and canada, what is gas canister availability like? 

Types I'm aware of are:
Threaded valves - as far as I can tell these should all be compatible
Unthreaded resealable Campingaz valves
The old pierce-type campingaz cylinders

How likely am I to come across each in North America?


αdαmsκι

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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2018, 12:39:58 pm »
We managed to find the propane / isopropane / butane gas canisters with a screw thread without too much difficult in western Northern America. These are the ones I'm talking about these
(Click if the image doesn't appear.)

This is one of the the chains we used when buying those canisters: https://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/

In Canada we probably used the MEC store in Vancouver: https://www.mec.ca/en/products/camping-and-hiking/camp-kitchen/stoves-fuel-and-fire/fuel/c/1283
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Re: what little stove?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2018, 12:41:11 pm »
I am tending to favour the Alpkit Koro ATM, just wish it had a wee stand like the MSR liquigas one.but how long does the gas last, ie how many brew ups, and how many spares would you need to carry(I know, depends how long your away for) but the faff of finding a shop if you run out. ?
I get about 5-6 days out of a full 220g canister, based on a mug of tea with the breakfast muesli, a mug before & after the evening meal, and the evening meal (typically pasta-based, using a pot cosy* rather than simmering the pasta)
I carry the canister in use, and a spare, relying on finding a replacement between the original running out and the spare running out.

* pot cosies are made from Thermawrap, which can be bought in large rolls from Wickes, B&Q etc for around £25, or small quantities suitable for a couple of pots from backpackinglight.co.uk for around £7 (plus gaffer tape). If you've got 8-10 minute pasta, bring it to the boils, then put the pot in the cosy and it will be ready in 13-15 mins.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2018, 07:42:58 am »
The threaded canisters are also available in hardware stores and builders supplies - they are commonly used for things like small blow torches as used in plumbing.

Generally how many days' usage do you want and how quick do you want to cook/boil things? A simple homemade meths stove will boil 500ml of water in 7 mins on something like 10ml of fuel. Costs nowt apart from time to make it and weighs next to nowt, OK, 10g, you don't need specialised canisters to hold the fuel. Everything will pack in to a 400ml mug. A bit more work in very cold weather but I've used one in -6C.

I've lots of stoves from the Saturn V like MSR GSK all the way down to Pocket Rocket clones and the above meths stoves.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2018, 08:07:53 am »
there are a number of "cat food can", beer can, etc. DIY stoves out there ...
https://www.thesodacanstove.com/alcohol-stove/cat-food-can-stove/index.php is just one of many sources.

Along with this, you would want a fuel container with the measured dispenser tube on the side.

These are really best just for boiling water.  Very little heat output regulation, etc., but fun to make and play with.