Author Topic: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness  (Read 9207 times)

Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 05:00:48 pm »
To be fair to Extinction I am on their side. It is completely bonkers that a fuel guzzling and lung-rotting jumbo jet is cheaper to get to the country next door than the train and ferry.
While I don't agree with jetting around just for a holiday, some people are trying to get to see family for a once a year (or once in every couple of years) occasion. They aren't travelling to a country 'next door' and train+ferry won't get them there in a time less than days.

<i>Marmite slave</i>

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2018, 05:23:34 pm »
Some are, undoubtedly. But many are not. I think the future prospect of human life being unsupportable on earth is more grave a prospect than supporting a short and long run-harmful system of fuel guzzling jets. The problem is financially cheap but environmentally disastrous jet travel has become a crutch in lieu of sustainable a to b transportation such as continental rail links or electrified coach networks - imagine if we'd sunk billions into curating a network like that across the world instead.

As it happens my Swiss, Dutch and German mates have gotten the coach or train home for Christmas, it's not that long a journey (14-20 hours) and is practically a door to door service unlike going by airplanes. Another used a ride sharing app to snag a lift home in a van covering her share of fuel and probably brought along some snacks.

I am not cold hearted and know people need to see their families at all times of year (not just Christmas) - my own dad worked abroad for two years and he could only make it home every fortnight by plane (though maybe he wouldn't have taken the job if the plane weren't available...) but I question that such a harmful industry is the crutch we should lean on to achieve that.

http://theconversation.com/its-time-to-wake-up-to-the-devastating-impact-flying-has-on-the-environment-70953
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ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2018, 05:45:23 pm »
Fortunately, we flew into Heathrow earlier.

Our inlaws will be driving up for Christmas much as we don't like it (they're too old to be driving that far, we might have to do a round trip to Bristol get them) but there are actually no sensible trains because of engineering. Which is the same insufferable story every year. I'm not clear why it's acceptable but I guess passengers always come last on the railways.

Travel is always going to have a cost. I realise picking on aviation ticks the class activism (though it long since stopped becoming the preserve of rich) – though I suppose of irony is lost given that'll happily buy endless piles of stuff shipped from China and expect to eat avocado and mangos (I'm as guilty as the rest of you, but at least I can admit it). A couple of friends of ours have bought an electric car so big that it won't fit in the garage. Saving the world, one gesture at a time.
!nataS pihsroW

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2018, 05:50:51 pm »
I'm sorry but it's a fact that it's massively harmful. Having cycle stuff moved from China by slow boat is nothing compared to a trip on a jet. Playing 'what about' is puerile and the worst 'gesture' I can think of.

Quote
there are actually no sensible trains because of engineering. Which is the same insufferable story every year. I'm not clear why it's acceptable but I guess passengers always come last on the railways.

It's because aside from bank holidays this is the only time of year the contractors get to run a proper blockade and get heavy work done. Such a burden of work is in great part owed to the severe neglect of the rail network 1974-1997.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5jqDgt2yRE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuzxruBlvRQ
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ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2018, 05:57:03 pm »
Considering the vast amount of stuff we move around the world, it's all effectively harmful. The most damaging thing you can do, of course, is to have to children. It's not a game of 'what about' I'm just pointing out that we all live profligate lifestyles.

I realise why they do the work during holidays but it's not my role as a passenger to facilitate their maintenance schedules.
!nataS pihsroW

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2018, 06:02:35 pm »
Much of it isn't maintenance - it's capital investment to try to keep pace with the increased demand, which has surged since the 90s. The network isn't up to it in its current configuration.
It doesn't matter whether 'it's all effectively harmful', what signifies is marginal degrees of harm. Eating a slice of pizza that's too hot and stepping on an upturned wooden plank with a nail in it are both harmful, what matters is one's marginal harmfulness is significantly greater than the other.

Quote
The most damaging thing you can do, of course, is to have to children.

Only assuming one's children replicate the carbon-heavy lifestyle of cheap jet airline travel, going about everywhere by oil powered death cage, etc. If anything it seems to me children like Greta have a much more forward thinking and sensible attitude than most 'adults' in understanding western lifetyles are not sustainable in the long run and will actually lead to grave human wellbeing outcomes.
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Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2018, 06:22:12 pm »
When drones first came around years ago, I was always amazed the CAA didn't ban them, as I've been expecting this sort of stunt to happen for a long time as the technology developed.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2018, 06:24:26 pm »
I haven't seen any explanation of why the airport is still closed. Are the drones still flying around? In which case they must have amazing battery life or be very well organized with relays of the things. Also, given it's reported they've brought the army in, how come they haven't just vaporized them?
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2018, 06:28:06 pm »
I haven't seen any explanation of why the airport is still closed. Are the drones still flying around? In which case they must have amazing battery life or be very well organized with relays of the things. Also, given it's reported they've brought the army in, how come they haven't just vaporized them?

Presumably because they haven't caught anyone yet - there's too high a risk of them just coming back when they restart?

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2018, 06:31:51 pm »
Are there any photos or videos of these "drones" yet?


ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2018, 06:35:32 pm »
so my job, in part is to help companies understand their environmental and wider sustainability impacts and risks, and help them understand how to reduce them, I have amongst others worked for several UK airports in this.

My time is paid for by the day.  Given that oil companies are still feeding (rather than creating) a global energy demand, albeit that demand is changing shape rapidly; it is still carbon intensive hence a large part of my work is still with energy companies.

How should I get there?  Aberdeen is feasible by train, but adds a day to the bill.  Egypt, Oman, Saudia Arabia? Should I expect the client to pay for the boat and the time?

I'd be interested in your practicable suggestions.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2018, 06:42:27 pm »
Teleconferencing?

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2018, 06:45:55 pm »
I haven't seen any explanation of why the airport is still closed. Are the drones still flying around? In which case they must have amazing battery life or be very well organized with relays of the things. Also, given it's reported they've brought the army in, how come they haven't just vaporized them?

Presumably because they haven't caught anyone yet - there's too high a risk of them just coming back when they restart?
I was thinking along those lines but wondered if there was something else or if the drone/s were still flying. I guess now the principle is proved, it'll happen at various times at various airports by protesters eco and political as well as various other nefarious reasons. Also just for the lolz, until someone accidentally causes a plane crash.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2018, 06:49:17 pm »
My practicable solution is that the cost of your air travel should internalise (at least in part) the environmental health impact and air travel be minimised and not seen as a staple essential. At the moment it is far far too cheap to fly. It's absurd and it's foisting dire health costs (short and long run) on the rest of the community. My point is not that all airports should close and everyone should use a windcheetah to get around, immediately, but this is a completely unsustainable situation that is killing people right now, and is on course to kill even more in decades to come.
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Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2018, 06:51:44 pm »
I haven't seen any explanation of why the airport is still closed. Are the drones still flying around? In which case they must have amazing battery life or be very well organized with relays of the things. Also, given it's reported they've brought the army in, how come they haven't just vaporized them?

Presumably because they haven't caught anyone yet - there's too high a risk of them just coming back when they restart?
I was thinking along those lines but wondered if there was something else or if the drone/s were still flying. I guess now the principle is proved, it'll happen at various times at various airports by protesters eco and political as well as various other nefarious reasons. Also just for the lolz, until someone accidentally causes a plane crash.

I seriously question just how much damage a drone could do, to be honest.

I once watched a documentary about aircraft engines. There was someone whose job it was, and I really envied this person, to fire dead chickens into jet engines running at full bore. It was awesome. There was a brief red plume out the back of the engine, and it merrily carried on engineing.

Of course - it would be pretty easy to weaponise a drone; reduce some of its weight, and replace with explosives. Maybe. I dunno - I'm not a terrorist. But I would like the job of firing dead chickens into jet engines.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2018, 06:53:07 pm »
Make sure you defrost the bird first...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/catapoultry/
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...


ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2018, 07:04:06 pm »
Teleconferencing?

Sadly, as someone who does it a lot, it's mostly a waste of time. Quite honestly, I'd rather not have to travel so much, but doing a job with 'global' in the title makes it pretty impossible.
!nataS pihsroW

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2018, 07:11:34 pm »
Live your dreams, Chris!

If you haven't a jet engine lying around and a chicken-cannon, you could use a trebuchet and a bike wheel on a turbo.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)


TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2018, 07:45:30 pm »
Teleconferencing?
Ahhh.... but whaddabout all those heeeyuge server farms converting vast quantities of energy from carbon based fuels into heat and CO2?  Not forgetting the enormous amounts of hot air vented by jargon obsessed "management" types desperately trying to justify their place on the payroll.

Ackherlee I disagree with Ian.  Teleconferences are effing marvellous, esp. if you're working from home.  Mute your mic.  and turn down the volume on the headset earphones so it's not too intrusive but you'll be able to hear if someone asks you a question then switch on some pleasant music while leaning back and looking out of the window at the pretty little birdies.  All the while being lulled to dreamland by the barely audible babbling in your earphones.  Marvellous.

Or (and I have been known  to do this) get on with some coding in what would otherwise be completely wasted time.

Either way I come out ahead.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2018, 07:49:22 pm »
Teleconferencing?
Ahhh.... but whaddabout all those heeeyuge server farms converting vast quantities of energy from carbon based fuels into heat and CO2?  Not forgetting the enormous amounts of hot air vented by jargon obsessed "management" types desperately trying to justify their place on the payroll.

Ackherlee I disagree with Ian.  Teleconferences are effing marvellous, esp. if you're working from home.  Mute your mic.  and turn down the volume on the headset earphones so it's not too intrusive but you'll be able to hear if someone asks you a question then switch on some pleasant music while leaning back and looking out of the window at the pretty little birdies.  All the while being lulled to dreamland by the barely audible babbling in your earphones.  Marvellous.

Or (and I have been known  to do this) get on with some coding in what would otherwise be completely wasted time.

Either way I come out ahead.
This ^ is my preferred approach to conference calls.
It may, or may not, include deployment of Sauvignon Blanc.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2018, 07:53:31 pm »
Teleconferencing?

Practicable, audit of an oil refinery by VC?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Gatwick drones -what utter stupidity and selfishness
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2018, 07:55:22 pm »
My practicable solution is that the cost of your air travel should internalise (at least in part) the environmental health impact and air travel be minimised and not seen as a staple essential. At the moment it is far far too cheap to fly. It's absurd and it's foisting dire health costs (short and long run) on the rest of the community. My point is not that all airports should close and everyone should use a windcheetah to get around, immediately, but this is a completely unsustainable situation that is killing people right now, and is on course to kill even more in decades to come.

On that we are agreed
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens