Author Topic: Factual errors in songs.  (Read 20303 times)

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #150 on: November 09, 2019, 08:09:20 pm »
I think you’ll find, Banananarama, that even if love - of any degree - were  classed as an offence, only the jury could find you guilty. The Judge’s jurisdiction in that situation would be limited to sentencing.

This thread has a 100% "whoosh" factor so far as I am concerned. But is it not possible for a judge to instruct a jury towards a particular verdict? I know as little about law as I do popular beat combos, so I'm perfectly happy to be subject to correction. As long as it doesn't hurt.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/not-only-a-right-but-a-duty-a-history-of-perverse-verdicts/
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #151 on: November 09, 2019, 08:11:07 pm »
Not all offences are tried by a jury, thobut...
I know, which is why I said “in that situation”.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #152 on: November 10, 2019, 12:04:23 am »
That's even worse than Toto.
Quote
Sure as kilimanjaro rises like olympus above the serengeti
I seek to cure whats deep inside, frightened of this thing that Ive become

Interesting thing I learned about this song recently is that it's written from the perspective of a naive white boy who's never been to Africa and has an impression based entirely on what he's read in various works of fiction.  The factual error is very much part of the point.  (The music video plays on this theme.)

Which make it so much less jarring to hear...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #153 on: November 10, 2019, 07:55:05 pm »
I think you’ll find, Banananarama, that even if love - of any degree - were  classed as an offence, only the jury could find you guilty. The Judge’s jurisdiction in that situation would be limited to sentencing.

This thread has a 100% "whoosh" factor so far as I am concerned. But is it not possible for a judge to instruct a jury towards a particular verdict? I know as little about law as I do popular beat combos, so I'm perfectly happy to be subject to correction. As long as it doesn't hurt.

The case has already been examined by The Secret Barrister on Twitter, I reproduce his arguments below:

Quote
Firstly, Bananarama erroneously assume that the judge AND the jury are judging the merits of the defence. This is simply not true. Judges in Crown Courts, even Courts of Love, are judges of law alone. The verdict is for the jury.

The ONLY way this would stand up to scrutiny is if the judge had ruled, as a matter of law, that a particular defence was not available, and directed the jury in such terms. Absent further detail, we cannot assume that this happened.

Secondly, the existence of a jury indicates that there is a contested trial to determine guilt. HOWEVER...

...Bananarama confess - openly - that they are not only guilty, but guilty as a girl can be (by which they are presumably accepting a degree of culpability placing them at the top of the range of the highest category on the relevant Sentencing Guideline).

In such circumstances, it is nonsensical for them to express surprise or complaint at the jury rejecting their “plea” (by which they presumably mean defence). They are to blame for admitting guilt in front of the jury and for wasting scarce court resources on a needless trial.

If Bananarama simply wanted to contest the *factual basis* of their admitted guilt, then they should be having a trial of issue (“Newton hearing”) in front of a judge alone. Their advocate should have advised them as such. This is plainly negligent.

In any event, there are live criminal proceedings and Bananarama are imploring the key witness (“only you can set me free”) to intervene to prevent the consequences of their admitted criminality. Bananarama are shamelessly attempting to pervert the course of justice.

In these circumstances, it is frankly unsurprising that, at the start of the song, Bananarama are “locked in a prison cell”. The judge was clearly right to withhold bail given the substantial grounds for believing that Bananarama would interfere with witnesses if granted bail.

In practical terms, Bananarama would be properly advised to spend less time imploring the complainant to help them, and seek advice on the merits of an appeal against conviction. That they haven’t is almost certainly down to savage legal aid cuts depriving them of representation.

My view, for what it’s worth, is that such an appeal would have merit. Because, and I have reread ALL my law books to make sure I’m right on this, there is NO criminal offence in England and Wales of “love in the first degree.” This is simply a common tabloid misconception.

That the CPS charged this case at all is a damning indictment on its chronic lack of resources and obsession with targets above all else. Far better, I would advise, to concede the appeal and bring new charges for the perverting the course of justice (above).

In conclusion, nothing about this Bananarama trial sits right with me. While we must be calm and not jump to conclusions without knowing the full facts, I am deeply troubled that something has gone badly wrong. Or that Bananarama’s legal research is not what it should be.


Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #154 on: November 10, 2019, 10:29:28 pm »
 ;D
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #155 on: November 11, 2019, 02:04:10 am »
This ^^^^
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #156 on: November 11, 2019, 11:48:30 am »
He's also done 'I shot the Sheriff"

  https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974243638921310209

"Murder on the Dance Floor"

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974251533931106304

"I Fought the Law"

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974255098095374336

and "Delilah"

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/974259595651813376 ("he is subject to a minimum term of at least 25 years on his life sentence. And rightly so.")

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #157 on: November 12, 2019, 05:38:37 pm »
ISTR that at Live Aid, David Bowie shortened his appearance to make way for the video of starving children that had been created to accompany The Cars' "Drive". When the video ended the cameras went to Bowie, in the interview suite, who appeared to have tears in his eyes.  This answers the question he had posed a decade earlier in 'Young Americans'.
Between the Disney abattoir and the chemical refinery

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #158 on: November 13, 2019, 01:36:23 pm »
If Spiral/Engranages is owt to go by, the Judge in France acts as the prosecutor...
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #159 on: November 13, 2019, 01:51:37 pm »
Different system. They use an inquisitorial method. And love would never be an offence in France anyway.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #160 on: November 14, 2019, 08:32:59 am »
another Chris de Burgh (just for rower 40)

A Spaceman came travelling
In his ship from afar
Twas light years of time
Since his mission did start

Light years are distance thicko!
another one from the legend that is CdB:

Richard the Lionheart never recaptured Jersualem from Saladin's armies.

(great song, though!)

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #161 on: November 14, 2019, 03:19:25 pm »

another one from the legend that is CdB:

Richard the Lionheart never recaptured Jersualem from Saladin's armies.

(great song, though!)

And yet another of his songs, Revolution, refers to "men coming down from the valleys", which may explain why he failed Geography at school.
Between the Disney abattoir and the chemical refinery

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #162 on: November 14, 2019, 03:22:27 pm »
A favourite tune of mine - allegedly punk but I'm not convinced - is 'Saturday Night Beneath the Plastic Palm Trees' by the 'Leyton Buzzards'.
This relates, very vividly, the escapades of young people in the 70s visiting The Tottenham Palais. Wot is where I used to take young ladies of my acquaintance for a jolly night out. (And my gran lived in Leighton Buzzard).

Now, for reasons (of poetic consistently I assume) it refers to Tottenham Hale Station as being the nearest transport hub.
Sorry pals - it was most definitely Seven Sisters Station.
And wots more the Palais De Dance was on Tottenham High Road, not Seven Sisters Road.
But it's still a bangin' toon.

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Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #163 on: November 19, 2019, 08:18:53 pm »
DJ Random has just played me the Robert Calvert track "Bugatti".  Which references Isadora Duncan, well-known for being strangled when her scarf became entangled the rear wheel of an Amilcar.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #164 on: November 20, 2019, 11:31:22 am »
It may be similar to what she cried out.......

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #165 on: November 25, 2019, 04:37:43 pm »
Mr Calvert delivered a wonderful track called The Song of the Gremlin. It was delivered in powerful and disturbing style by Arthur Brown.

Bob/Arthur: they are called ailerons, not "airelons"
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Factual errors in songs.
« Reply #166 on: November 25, 2019, 05:17:03 pm »

another one from the legend that is CdB:

Richard the Lionheart never recaptured Jersualem from Saladin's armies.

(great song, though!)

And yet another of his songs, Revolution, refers to "men coming down from the valleys", which may explain why he failed Geography at school.


I'm pretty sure that if you go to them there Himalayas you'll find some valleys at very high altitudes.  Not all valleys are at sea-level :)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.