Author Topic: SONOS - a revelation  (Read 3054 times)

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2019, 07:00:47 pm »
I concur.
My system has some units wired and the rest wireless. According to the Router device table, ALL devices are listed as wired, even those that are wireless.
Sniffing Wifi reveals a strong "hidden" network running in parallel with the home WiFi - the Sonos Mesh network is the only possible culprit.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2019, 07:37:28 pm »
None of my Sonos speakers have ever seen an ethernet cable, only the diabolical rays of the wifi access point. All five come up connected via wifi as SonosZPs and have DHCP-issued IPs. I think it only creates a mesh if you use the boost feature with a cable. I guess that works analogous with my Arlo, where the cameras mesh with the base station which is wired into the LAN so it can talk to the internets and then Russian hackers can see me in my pants to my favourite selection of Miserable Girls Singing in Bathrooms.

It's just a bit of a mystery how they got onto a WPA-protected network with just, as far as I remember, the press of a button. It's a dark magic, for sure. Either that or I forgot the bit where the iPhone said 'share your password' when I was setting them up in which case there's probably not a lot of mystery to be solved.
!nataS pihsroW

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2019, 08:02:48 pm »
None of my Sonos speakers have ever seen an ethernet cable, […] I think it only creates a mesh if you use the boost feature with a cable.

Yes, I *think* that's what I said.

Quote
It's just a bit of a mystery how they got onto a WPA-protected network with just, as far as I remember, the press of a button. It's a dark magic, for sure.

<tweaks ear in the manner of a Maths Teacher>
Review the previous few posts, and write out the answer 100 times.
In ink.
By tomorrow.
And at the same time, Learn It...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2019, 08:14:30 pm »
Oh, I don't understand. I think we've reached the point where technology is so advanced that it's magic to me.
!nataS pihsroW

Vince

  • Can't climb; won't climb
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2019, 08:40:18 pm »
Boy Wunja has a Sonos one. I agree with the excellent sound and connectivity functionality.
However, like a lot of IoT stuff the security stinks. I may have downloaded the app on to MY phone and I may have played Val Doonican or Max Bygraves (Spotify doesn't seem to have The Cheeky Girls) in his room when I felt it necessary.
216km from Marsh Gibbon

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2019, 09:41:09 pm »
Oh, I don't understand. I think we've reached the point where technology is so advanced that it's magic to me.

I think that's exactly as it should be.
Indistinguishable from magic.

But it's also right that there should be wizards who at least understand the magic, even if they have limited power to control it.

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2019, 09:44:59 pm »
Boy Wunja has a Sonos one. I agree with the excellent sound and connectivity functionality.
However, like a lot of IoT stuff the security stinks. I may have downloaded the app on to MY phone and I may have played Val Doonican or Max Bygraves (Spotify doesn't seem to have The Cheeky Girls) in his room when I felt it necessary.

Thats happened a couple of times here too, "Keeping your poop in a jar"  didn't go down so well as the alarm call for my son.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2019, 09:53:47 pm »
Oh, I don't understand. I think we've reached the point where technology is so advanced that it's magic to me.

I think that's exactly as it should be.
Indistinguishable from magic.

But it's also right that there should be wizards who at least understand the magic, even if they have limited power to control it.

I have one up on some people. My watch, for instance, automatically logs me into my sleeping MacBook when I sit down in front of it. One of my colleagues was mysterified by this phenomenon, so when she asked how, I told her it read my brain waves and I just had to picture my password in my mind.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2020, 07:03:33 pm »
Re this Sonos sunsetting:

https://www.slashgear.com/these-sonos-devices-lose-software-support-in-2020-21607309/

For those who have older Sonos bits (only 1st gen Play:5 and a Bridge in my case) what sort of things might occur as time goes on? I don’t mind not getting new features as long as I retain all the existing ones. But could some functionality be lost? If so, that’s a bit sh*t. As is some of what I am reading about their “upgrade” methods. Insanely wasteful.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2020, 07:41:17 pm »
Oh, I don't understand. I think we've reached the point where technology is so advanced that it's magic to me.

I think that's exactly as it should be.
Indistinguishable from magic.

But it's also right that there should be wizards who at least understand the magic, even if they have limited power to control it.

I have one up on some people. My watch, for instance, automatically logs me into my sleeping MacBook when I sit down in front of it. One of my colleagues was mysterified by this phenomenon, so when she asked how, I told her it read my brain waves and I just had to picture my password in my mind.

It being vitally important not to picture it with capslock on.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2020, 08:02:51 pm »
Re this Sonos sunsetting:

https://www.slashgear.com/these-sonos-devices-lose-software-support-in-2020-21607309/

For those who have older Sonos bits (only 1st gen Play:5 and a Bridge in my case) what sort of things might occur as time goes on? I don’t mind not getting new features as long as I retain all the existing ones. But could some functionality be lost? If so, that’s a bit sh*t. As is some of what I am reading about their “upgrade” methods. Insanely wasteful.

I'm not sure what you expect them to do. They aren't stopping their old kit from working, it continuous to operate the same as when you bought it or even better if they have added more features up the point where support ends. all that's happened is they aren't doing any more updates. Companies can only support older hardware with software updates for so long it just gets uneconomic after a period of time. Alternately we can have more expensive kit with longer software support. Even most Linux distributions that bastion of fee software mostly supported by community effort have dropped support for 386 and 486 processors as it's just not worth the effort.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2020, 08:45:13 pm »
AIUI, Sonos needs all devices to be on the same firmware version, so having old devices prevents the newer ones from receiving updates.  I'm not sure that's entirely sensible, compared to the alternative of the old devices simply stopping working.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2020, 08:56:30 pm »
AIUI, Sonos needs all devices to be on the same firmware version, so having old devices prevents the newer ones from receiving updates.  I'm not sure that's entirely sensible, compared to the alternative of the old devices simply stopping working.

Hmm that's a tricky one. People would get annoyed if half their speakers stopped working as well. I guess giving them the option to not update anything or drop the old ones of the network would be an idea.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2020, 09:05:35 pm »
I also think there's a balance (the devices mentioned are all over a decade old), but they should ensure there's always an option to keep old speakers running at the expense of new features. If they want people to upgrade then make it worthwhile rather than wastefully brick old hardware. Yeah, the 'trade-up' thing seems horrible.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2020, 10:15:23 pm »
They aren't stopping their old kit from working, it continuous to operate the same as when you bought it.

As I say, it doesn’t bother me if I miss out on additional features. Wanting to retain the existing features is reasonable. It’s a speaker: obsolescence shouldn’t be necessary because of software updates after 10 years.

Anyway, the reason for my query was that their email today (subject, a somewhat off "Your system requires attention”) says “in May, the following products in your system will be classified as legacy and no longer receive software updates and new features. This will affect your listening experience.” (My italics).

And:

Quote
You have options. Continue using legacy products:
You can continue using legacy products after May, but your system will no longer receive software updates and new features. Over time, this is likely to disrupt access to services and overall functionality.

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2020, 07:23:14 am »
Ah that's the same thing that happens to Smart TVs.

The problem isn't Sonas per se its the services that it connects to. For example streaming radio. Sonas stop providing updates for device X and it works fine for a year or so then Streaming radio service X upgrade their streaming service and require an update to clients that use. There is no update for the Sonas so it loses access to that service. Unfortunately that's the reality of a networked world.

I suspect eventually this kind of issue will slow down as standards for streaming and the like settle down. At the moment though we are really at the beginning of this technology and things change rapidly.

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2020, 01:12:25 pm »
Steaming audio/video isn't exactly a new idea.  It's been around in various forms for the best part of 30 years, and there are plenty of open standards.  The future-proofing problem is partly one of newer codecs or protocols, but mostly one of shortsightedness and deliberate lock-in by the content providers.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2020, 02:39:28 pm »
Meanwhile, people express puzzlement at the fact that I still buy records and CDs.
Between the Disney abattoir and the chemical refinery

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2020, 11:29:56 am »
I have 4 components and my sons have 1 each. (Now moved away, so not part of my system). Of my 4, 3 are too old.

Legacy products were introduced between 2005 and 2011 and, given the age of the technology, do not have enough memory or processing power to sustain future innovation.
Please note that because Sonos is a system, all products operate on the same software. If modern products remain connected to legacy products after May, they also will not receive software updates and new features
.”

I have the option to trade up, or
but your system will no longer receive software updates and new features. Over time, this is likely to disrupt access to services and overall functionality

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2020, 11:38:56 am »
That doesn't seem unreasonable (bricking old hardware as part of an upgrade plan, on the other hand...) eventually services will outpace the hardware. You already need a fairly modern mobile phone to operate the things (the Sonos app doesn't work on old versions of iOS – though Airplay still seems to work).
!nataS pihsroW

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2020, 12:17:27 pm »
That doesn't seem unreasonable (bricking old hardware as part of an upgrade plan, on the other hand...) eventually services will outpace the hardware. You already need a fairly modern mobile phone to operate the things (the Sonos app doesn't work on old versions of iOS – though Airplay still seems to work).

It does to me.  Having my whole system run on out of date software because I have 1 or more aged components seems very limiting. I hope I can still use it to play music from my NAS but can certainly envisage a time when spotify(etc) wont play on it.

Edit to add:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51206604

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2020, 03:12:08 pm »
The thing is, once one speaker stops supporting a feature that the newer ones do, it gets complicated. My basic Play speakers don't support airplay 2, for instance, though it's fine, because you can still pair them with Sonos Ones that do.

It's the same with mobile phones, a suitable old version of iOS or Android won't support music services (my old iPad doesn't support the Spotify app (or Sonos), but still plays from Apple Music).
!nataS pihsroW

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2020, 08:57:43 am »
One day my Pioneer A400 (upgraded a few years ago) paired with Lynn speakers using WIRES will highly desirable again.  Altho' I have ditched the CD player and play everything from FLAC files.

Bought Mrs A an Echo Dot.  Ed Sheeran, One Direction, West Life ..   Aaaaarggghh..  Why did I do it?
Sic transit and all that..

Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2020, 06:07:55 pm »
That doesn't seem unreasonable

It does to me.  Having my whole system run on out of date software because I have 1 or more aged components seems very limiting. I hope I can still use it to play music from my NAS but can certainly envisage a time when spotify(etc) wont play on it.

Quite right.  The apparent casual acceptance on here of Sonos's moronic announcement is bizarre.

Sonos users should be in no doubt that the company has quite possibly just out-Ratnered Ratner.  In the space of one day, and with one e-mail, it has turned its legions of happy tech-and-social-media-savvy owners and recommenders into an army of despisers vowing never to buy Sonos again.  Many are ditching their equipment or exploring alternatives, as the new money-grubbing strategy that's been revealed destroys the whole Sonos stable one-system home multi-room inter-connected  premium audio ethos.

SEE HERE for the enormous backlash underway, and to understand why Sonos has basically shot itself in the head.  Elsewhere, sites such as Trustpilot etc show just how bad the reaction has been.  Owners are flooding review pages on Amazon etc too, warning prospective purchasers off.  National and international news and tech media everywhere are reporting the fiasco - it's been on the front page of BBC News twice.  The share price is plummeting.

Quite astounding that Sonos thought it was going to get this dumb strategy past hundreds of thousands of people who have invested very large sums in Sonos equipment but are not prepared to pay those sums all over again just to keep their current set-up doing what it already does but with some minor extra bells and whistles most of them don't want.  The environmental lunacy of its trade-up scheme is the icing on this sh1tcake.

An extraordinary masterclass in corporate idiocy that will be subject to many a business management course case study for years to come.

Sonos might just be able to rescue this and get the bullet surgically removed from its brain in time, but the follow-up faux-apology stroke reiteration of dumb strategy from the CEO (who I understand coincidentally had a major hand in the demise of BlackBerry too) ain't gonna do it.

DaveJ

  • Happy days
Re: SONOS - a revelation
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2020, 01:02:58 pm »
Its very easy to slag off Sonos.  Its not so easy to see what else they could do.

I'm sure everyone wants their ancient underpowered devices to keep up with the latest gadgets, but dream on.  Expecting enhancements for old devices to continue indefinitely isn't realistic.

There are other (worse) examples of this.  iPlayer stopped working on my TV and many others when the BBC changed the way it worked a couple of years back.  Its a problem that will become more widespread as computing spreads into more and more devices.  Sonos are at the sharp end of this, as people come to terms with having bought a complex IT system when they half thought they were buying something not too dissimilar to a old fashioned amplifier and speakers.

Its not as if Sonos will stop anything working.  The problems will come when Apple/Tidal/Spotify change their systems.

And in case anyone thinks this is easy, just look at the problems Bose have had with updates breaking their devices.  Actually breaking a working device, not ceasing to provide enhancements at some point in the future.