Author Topic: Immobilised Bike  (Read 16509 times)

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #50 on: 01 March, 2019, 01:54:39 pm »
Forgive me for being dim but it appears from the picture that the two bikes were locked together, rather than the same lock being used to lock both bikes to the stand.  Was this the case?

Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #51 on: 01 March, 2019, 01:58:32 pm »
I would guess that Zigzag (black bike owner) had either removed his lock before taking the photo, or his lock (which locks his bike to the stand) is not in the photo.

The lock in the photo belong(ed) to the red bike.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #52 on: 01 March, 2019, 02:19:55 pm »
I would guess that Zigzag (black bike owner) had either removed his lock before taking the photo, or his lock (which locks his bike to the stand) is not in the photo.

The lock in the photo belong(ed) to the red bike.

yes, i had my bike locked to a stand with my d-lock around the seat tube and rear wheel. my d-lock is unlocked and visible attached to the bike onto it's seat tube pointing forwards, and photo was taken during the time i was pondering what to do next. spent the next hour in a nearby pub asking people around if it's anyone's bike until the pub closed and i took the last tube home.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #53 on: 01 March, 2019, 03:03:40 pm »
I would guess that Zigzag (black bike owner) had either removed his lock before taking the photo, or his lock (which locks his bike to the stand) is not in the photo.

The lock in the photo belong(ed) to the red bike.

yes, i had my bike locked to a stand with my d-lock around the seat tube and rear wheel. my d-lock is unlocked and visible attached to the bike onto it's seat tube pointing forwards, and photo was taken during the time i was pondering what to do next. spent the next hour in a nearby pub asking people around if it's anyone's bike until the pub closed and i took the last tube home.

If the other persons lock had been around the stand and your bike I might have understood the possibility of drastic measures... but otherwise I have to agree with @ElyDave and @grams.  I would think other options that fundamentally wrecking someone else's bike were available.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #54 on: 01 March, 2019, 03:24:17 pm »
If the other persons lock had been around the stand and your bike I might have understood the possibility of drastic measures... but otherwise I have to agree with @ElyDave and @grams.  I would think other options that fundamentally wrecking someone else's bike were available.

given enough time and disproportionate expense - yes, i agree. their bike however can be easily and cheaply repaired, it's not been wrecked.

Ben T

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #55 on: 01 March, 2019, 03:32:20 pm »
I'd be interested to see how many of the moral righteous thou shalt not destroy a bike brigade would be pointing and laughing if the offender was a selfishly parked car. :)

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #56 on: 01 March, 2019, 04:28:12 pm »
If the other persons lock had been around the stand and your bike I might have understood the possibility of drastic measures... but otherwise I have to agree with @ElyDave and @grams.  I would think other options that fundamentally wrecking someone else's bike were available.

given enough time and disproportionate expense - yes, i agree. their bike however can be easily and cheaply repaired, it's not been wrecked.

So you keep saying...   sounds like post hoc rationalisation to me. 
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #57 on: 01 March, 2019, 04:45:56 pm »
If the other persons lock had been around the stand and your bike I might have understood the possibility of drastic measures... but otherwise I have to agree with @ElyDave and @grams.  I would think other options that fundamentally wrecking someone else's bike were available.

given enough time and disproportionate expense - yes, i agree. their bike however can be easily and cheaply repaired, it's not been wrecked.

So you keep saying...   sounds like post hoc rationalisation to me.

it's not, i chose the place to cut for the least amount of damage and easiest repair. same with the d-lock, it can be repaired if the owner found this thread and got in touch (provided my bike was locked without malicious intent). i always strive for a win-win solution, wherever possible. O:-)

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #58 on: 01 March, 2019, 05:12:51 pm »
Quote from: zigzag link=topic=111224.msg2374165#msg2374165 date=
given enough time and disproportionate expense - yes, i agree.

You said you already had a grinder and were cutting the lock?

Quote
their bike however can be easily and cheaply repaired, it's not been wrecked.

Bollocks! No normal person would see that and think it could be repaired. And I can’t see a professional doing it “cheaply”. That bike will never be ridden again.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #59 on: 01 March, 2019, 05:25:20 pm »
i started cutting the lock, but the mini-grinder tool was not powerful enough, plus i couldn't see properly in the dark and rain. it also generated noise, sparks and attention. if you are brave to do this in busy public space i encourage you to go and try that. easy to be righteous keyboard warrior, i'm interested what would be your course of action (it doesn't mean it would be suitable for me, but i'd still like to hear)?

many normal people have repaired their broken bikes by welding, just ask some seasoned tourists or audaxers who use steel bikes for their travels. no drama there whatsoever.

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #60 on: 01 March, 2019, 05:38:23 pm »
What did the cop who you consulted before say? I assume you told them what your plans were?

And I wouldn’t call a seasoned tourist or audaxer normal...

I can’t see that bike ever being ridden again. Or worse the rider not realising what happened and trying to ride it.

Cutting the lock could be justified. Cutting the frame though? Criminal Damage.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #61 on: 01 March, 2019, 05:50:58 pm »
Cutting the lock could be justified.

that's what i did :thumbsup:

Quote
Cutting the frame though? Criminal Damage.

oops. what's next?

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #62 on: 01 March, 2019, 06:02:44 pm »
If that happened in London (and presumably the same would apply in many other cities and towns), my immediate thought would be that this was a deliberate act. I would then work to find a way to retrieve my bike as quickly as possible, knowing the longer it is left the greater the chance it wouldn't be there when I returned.

Personally I wouldn't have the courage to extract it the way zigzag has, but I do see this as a viable route.

One option I might have taken would be to leave my details and an explanation of what I was doing at that local pub, and then wheel both bikes to the tube station and take them both home. Then look to break the lock, and return the other bike. But I appreciate I'm making this suggestion without full knowledge of the circumstances, and obviously outside the time window that zigzag had to act.

Eddington: 133 miles    Max square: 43x43

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #63 on: 01 March, 2019, 06:19:30 pm »
Judging by the sticker on the dowtube, it looks like the bike was on one of the bike registers. That would suggest it's more than a clunker to the owner. Sorry, cutting the frame is too far. As described earlier, contacting the police and then cutting the lock would be OK in my book, but I think you've just written off someone's bike. Imagine how you would feel the other way round.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #64 on: 01 March, 2019, 06:35:13 pm »
I can thus reassure myself with that if I locked it, it will be locked.

Well yes.  But the action of locking a door is about as memorable as the previous dozen actions of locking the door.  Yes you remember locking the door, but was that today or yesterday?  Hence the animals to make each locking a pseudo-unique event.

Locking the door was perhaps a bad example as yes you're right, it's so unmemorable... but for me that also means it's automatic, so I rest in the knowledge that I probably did do it because I do it out of instinct.

But still not sure how an animal helps this. If I remember locking it with animal "squirrel", for example, how do I know that "squirrel" relates to today, and not yesterday? Does the animal's name have to begin with the same letter as the day of the week, for example?
I'm thinking as BenT on this. In order to think of an animal when locking the door, you have to remember that you're supposed to remember it. So it works, but you can't be sure after the event that it did work.

I have a lovely but scatterbrained (perhaps lovely because scatterbrained?) friend in Warsaw who used to have a list, written in bold marker pen on poster-sized paper, on the back of her door:
HAVE YOU GOT?
KEYS
PHONE
WALLET
SEASON TICKET
BAG
MONEY
BOOKS

(probably not an exhaustive list, but not separate occurrence of wallet and money)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #65 on: 01 March, 2019, 10:27:28 pm »
You gave them 24 hours and tried to cut the lock off before doing what you had to do to get your bike bike.

Fair enough.

What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #66 on: 02 March, 2019, 07:33:09 am »
Other than your lock, was anything actually attached to the stand?

I think I’d have lifted them both over the top and dealt with it elsewhere.
Don't ask.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #67 on: 02 March, 2019, 08:23:40 am »
<...>
One option I might have taken would be to leave my details and an explanation of what I was doing at that local pub, and then wheel both bikes to the tube station and take them both home. Then look to break the lock, and return the other bike. But I appreciate I'm making this suggestion without full knowledge of the circumstances, and obviously outside the time window that zigzag had to act.

i've carried them few metres away but they were too heavy (30kg+) to carry any considerable distance and bikes are not allowed in the tube anyway. i've talked to a pub lady the night before and told that i might be back tomorrow to rescue my bike if the other one is still there. also tried to wave down a passing police car, but they were going somewhere else and didn't have time to stop (or didn't notice me?).

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #68 on: 02 March, 2019, 08:41:54 am »
Judging by the sticker on the dowtube, it looks like the bike was on one of the bike registers. That would suggest it's more than a clunker to the owner. Sorry, cutting the frame is too far. As described earlier, contacting the police and then cutting the lock would be OK in my book, but I think you've just written off someone's bike. Imagine how you would feel the other way round.

thanks for your input; who would do the cutting in a public place, police or me? i've tried cutting the lock initially, but it wasn't working with the tool i had. their bike can be repaired if they want to. i'd feel fine, had three bikes stolen in london over the years, no negative emotions. i'd feel different if one of my "nice" bikes was stolen, but i try not to leave them unattended.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #69 on: 02 March, 2019, 08:47:49 am »
Other than your lock, was anything actually attached to the stand?

I think I’d have lifted them both over the top and dealt with it elsewhere.

i've carried them for few metres to a more convenient place under the street light but they were too heavy to carry for any considerable distance.

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #70 on: 02 March, 2019, 08:58:00 am »
Other than your lock, was anything actually attached to the stand?

I think I’d have lifted them both over the top and dealt with it elsewhere.

i've carried them for few metres to a more convenient place under the street light but they were too heavy to carry for any considerable distance.

Yeah I’d imagine it’d be difficult to move them. It’d have probably involved a second set of hands and probably a large car or a van to get it anywhere useful.
Don't ask.

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #71 on: 02 March, 2019, 09:31:15 am »
If the owner ever returns it’s going to look like someone cut through the bike to steal their lock.

A surreal theft.
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #72 on: 02 March, 2019, 10:35:37 am »
I once got blocked into a car park after dark with two screaming kids in the car.  I had to do a bit of touch-parking to escape.  I did not leave a note on the car.  It was their fault.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #73 on: 02 March, 2019, 10:45:59 am »
Judging by the sticker on the dowtube, it looks like the bike was on one of the bike registers. That would suggest it's more than a clunker to the owner. Sorry, cutting the frame is too far. As described earlier, contacting the police and then cutting the lock would be OK in my book, but I think you've just written off someone's bike. Imagine how you would feel the other way round.

thanks for your input; who would do the cutting in a public place, police or me? i've tried cutting the lock initially, but it wasn't working with the tool i had. their bike can be repaired if they want to. i'd feel fine, had three bikes stolen in london over the years, no negative emotions. i'd feel different if one of my "nice" bikes was stolen, but i try not to leave them unattended.

Exactly.

As pointed out above from the LFGSS thread, bitch-locking a bike is considered as a form of criminal damage as it deprives the owner of access to their property. Whilst this doesn't automatically mean that the bike in question is fair game there needs to be a consideration of how much time and money one is willing to expend to get their bike back, money that will almost certainly not be recoverable.

Consider the extremes...

A solution costing £0, not affecting the other bike, and taking barely any time at all would obviously be ideal. But this wasn't available.

zigzag tried the other £0 route of waiting 24+ hours, leaving notes, etc, but that didn't work.

Having to spend £500 (inflated figure used on purpose) to short notice buy or rent a large set of bolt croppers or portable angle grinder would, hopefully, get your bike back and leave the other bike unaffected (if you dropped it in at the local police station for example). But that's a lot of money, plus the hassle of renting and returning the items, etc.

Given those two extremes the reality of the various options will be somewhere in the middle, and everyone will have a different opinion of the amount they are willing to spend (and time they are willing to wait).

If it was, say, £50 to grind off the lock (and leave the other bike undamaged) and a few hours extra hassle of renting/returning the grinder, but £3 for a junior hacksaw from a nearby hardware shop to cut through the seat stays in 5 minutes then, depending on lots of other circumstances, the latter might seem like the preferred option at that time.

It also comes down to how urgent the need for the bike is. If this was my cheap commuting hackbike that cost me £20 I'd be willing to sit it out with a note on the other bike for much longer than if it was an £2000 bike I needed for an Audax or other ride a day or so later (especially if this could be a targeted theft attempt).

Finally, in this case, the cost of repairing the seatstays is proabably about the same as the cost of the D-lock that would have been cut off. It's just getting the seatstays fixed isn't an item you can order online or buy quite easily on the high street. (EDIT - they're also down the cost of the D-lock too, so this equivalence doesn't quite work here.)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Immobilised Bike
« Reply #74 on: 02 March, 2019, 12:01:50 pm »
The frame isn't worth repairing with cut seatstays (£300, I reckon - two new stays - you can't just braze them as material is missing, plus paint).  I'd still have cut it.  24 hours is long enough to wait, the authorities won't help and cutting a lock is very difficult plus carries the risk of arrest.

If the owner complained, I'd source a s/h frame and transfer the bits.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.