Author Topic: Pavement parking  (Read 3546 times)

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2019, 12:37:54 pm »
Pavement parking is illegal in London. I thought consideration was being given to making this countrywide, but no sign yet.

FSVO "London" and "illegal".  Within two minutes' walk of Larrington Towers there are places where parking is 100% on the pavement, places where signs order you to park with two wheels on the pavement and places where a single wheel raised an inch above normal road level will net you a ticket.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2019, 12:44:02 pm »
Perhaps we could learn from the Dutch:  Parking banned by default unless there's a marked bay, rather than allowed by default unless there's a prohibition.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2019, 02:48:30 pm »
Perhaps we could learn from the Dutch:  Parking banned by default unless there's a marked bay, rather than allowed by default unless there's a prohibition.
I first came across that proposal in the 1980s, when it was suggested that the meaning of yellow lines should be reversed, so you're only allowed to park on them. The motives were as much aesthetic as congestion back then.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2019, 02:51:11 pm »
Parking partly on the pavement in a marked area is pretty standard in Poland and can work quite well. It needs a wide enough area of pavement left outside the parking area and some means of preventing drivers going beyond it; either rigorous ticketing or bollards, trees or similar.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2019, 03:00:24 pm »
Depends what you mean by "run at a profit".

Presumably the owners and shareholders of bus operating companies are not in it for purely altruistic reasons.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2019, 07:15:58 pm »
And effectively public money has to pay for the bus services and their dividends but with little or no say in how the buses are run.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2019, 09:10:59 pm »
And council tax payers who may not even have a car end up paying for pavement repairs.

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2019, 09:20:20 pm »
Have a look at the situation in this Oxford gmaps streetview (2017)...those white lines!?  Wheely bin slalom?

The council ought to be taken to task for that. Painting a parking box on a pavement doesn't make it legal to park there, so they are encouraging people to park illegally, and like total dicks. It's clear that precisely no thought has been made for anyone who isn't in a vehicle.
There are road markings like that all over Oxford. I was driving up Divinity Road the other day, and someone pushing their bike up the pavement had to push it onto the road and around a parked car because there wasn't enough space on the pavement. The car was entirely inside the parking white lines.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2019, 10:03:57 am »
Pavement parking is illegal in London. I thought consideration was being given to making this countrywide, but no sign yet.

FSVO "London" and "illegal".  Within two minutes' walk of Larrington Towers there are places where parking is 100% on the pavement, places where signs order you to park with two wheels on the pavement and places where a single wheel raised an inch above normal road level will net you a ticket.

Across the road from our mothership on Blackfriars Road there's always cars and vans on the pavement – deliveries and facilities for the buildings opposite. Unlike the peril of pavement cycling, I can't imagine the Met being too troubled about someone driving a couple of tonnes for motor vehicle on the pavement. Southwark, I suppose, might be enticed to ticket them.

As part of the wider story, it's interesting how people have been manipulated into car-reliance and still quite often see be entirely dependent on their car as 'freedom' whereas under every measure it's the opposite. It's a huge limit on what we can do, everything is defined by driving and parking, and it's killed much of the idea of locality – if your local high street is a dying scroll of booze-for-kids convenience stores, charity shops, kebabs and junk food, and a betting shop, it's not Amazon that's killed it, it's the car.

I have a fairly modest dream of being able to walk to the train station or town centre, side by side and in conversation with my wife, not having to step out into the road or squeeze through gaps between walls, street furniture and cars. If you've got kids or a buggy, you pretty much have to drive the 5-10 minutes. And once people are in their car, they don't drive to the local high street.
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arabella

  • no se porque yo no lo se
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2019, 11:01:50 am »
I have a fairly modest dream of being able to walk to the train station or town centre, side by side and in conversation with my wife, not having to step out into the road or squeeze through gaps between walls, street furniture and cars. If you've got kids or a buggy, you pretty much have to drive the 5-10 minutes. And once people are in their car, they don't drive to the local high street.
Me too.
Though I'd disagree with the 'have to drive' (emboldened by me) - you only HAVE to drive if you make yourself (and if you don't have a car you can't drive, regardless).  We either walked or get the bus but mainly walk - it's only 30 mins to the station which is the other side of the centre.
Where you massively lose by not having a car is all these 'events' that assume you are going to have a car and drive to them - they're pretty much all 100% inaccessible (there was a local even that used to run a bus on some evenings.  Then they moved the event (to be fair nearer, but still not walkable, probably on a bus route if you got yourself to the bus station) and stopped the bus. 
In the dark, all views are the same.

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2019, 12:26:28 pm »
Perhaps we could learn from the Dutch:  Parking banned by default unless there's a marked bay, rather than allowed by default unless there's a prohibition.
I first came across that proposal in the 1980s, when it was suggested that the meaning of yellow lines should be reversed, so you're only allowed to park on them. The motives were as much aesthetic as congestion back then.

The reversal of the meaning of yellow lines is a Monster Raving Loony party manifesto pledge.

https://www.loonyparty.com/proposals/policies-a-z/

"Y. YELLOW lines will be painted where you can park instead of where you can’t to save money."
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2019, 12:29:39 pm »
Perhaps we could learn from the Dutch:  Parking banned by default unless there's a marked bay, rather than allowed by default unless there's a prohibition.
I first came across that proposal in the 1980s, when it was suggested that the meaning of yellow lines should be reversed, so you're only allowed to park on them. The motives were as much aesthetic as congestion back then.

The reversal of the meaning of yellow lines is a Monster Raving Loony party manifesto pledge.

https://www.loonyparty.com/proposals/policies-a-z/

"Y. YELLOW lines will be painted where you can park instead of where you can’t to save money."
It has been said elsewhere that many of the things the Raving Loonies proposed as jokes have in time become serious law.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2019, 12:39:33 pm »
Buses work fine until you introduce private transport. Then people live and work wherever, and no public transport system can provide a wherever service.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2019, 01:48:38 pm »
Buses work fine until you introduce private transport. Then people live and work wherever, and no public transport system can provide a wherever service.

No they don't.

Integrated transport works fine with government support to recognise the value of the system. Buses work well for a local leg of a journey, but will always work past capacity at some times and uneconomically at others. So, again, needing some form of recognition of the value of moving people around. But without an integrated public transport, including private transport, you get nowhere. Fast.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2019, 12:17:48 pm »
Perhaps we could learn from the Dutch:  Parking banned by default unless there's a marked bay, rather than allowed by default unless there's a prohibition.
I first came across that proposal in the 1980s, when it was suggested that the meaning of yellow lines should be reversed, so you're only allowed to park on them. The motives were as much aesthetic as congestion back then.

The reversal of the meaning of yellow lines is a Monster Raving Loony party manifesto pledge.

https://www.loonyparty.com/proposals/policies-a-z/

"Y. YELLOW lines will be painted where you can park instead of where you can’t to save money."
It has been said elsewhere that many of the things the Raving Loonies proposed as jokes have in time become serious law.

Back when Sutch was still leading the National Teenage Party he even proposed lowering the voting age to 18 :o
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2019, 12:36:51 pm »
The consideration your average person has for the pedestrian/pushchair/wheelchair/mobility scooter user was writ large in our residential area last year when Cardiff was at the epicentre of that April snow-dump.
After a day or two it melted enough for the vast majority of the ignoramuses residents in our area to shovel all the snow out of their driveways and dump it straight on the pavement in huge piles making the pavement impassable without a chieftain tank.  All the roads near us resembled a groined beach - instead of wooden groins you had snow groins instead.  >:(
These people had front yards (I would say gardens but they're nearly all slabbed over of course) to shovel their snow into, but no - not a thought clearly entered their heads about actually traveling by foot (or wheelchair/mobility scooter).  It is no wonder they park on the pavement - its existence barely registers in their grey-matter - any big-enough space that does not already have a car plonked on it is fair game.


FWIW I shall have a look at the link in the OP and put my support that way. :thumbsup:
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

arabella

  • no se porque yo no lo se
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2019, 01:04:27 pm »
Similarly, as I was reminded this morning:
it's bin day.  if I put my bin on the pavement then together with the cars already parked thereon it's pretty much impassable.  I can't put on the road as there isn't any room between the parked cars.  Or if there is space and I put my bin at the edge of the road to leave the pavement clear, then I find that (either a driver of the bin people) the bin is back on the pavement when I return.
Thus again those with cars having no thought to people using the pavement.
In the dark, all views are the same.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2019, 01:09:37 pm »
Also hedges. People let them grow until they take up half or more the width of the pavement.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

arabella

  • no se porque yo no lo se
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2019, 01:18:51 pm »
Yes
and at the same time the verges are mown down before the wildflower seeds are set and propagated
it should be the other way around.  better visibility means risk compensation methinks
In the dark, all views are the same.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2019, 01:25:16 pm »
Quite a lot of verges have signs on them "Do not mow from <month> to <month>" but they always get mown regardless.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2019, 05:22:39 pm »
Similarly, as I was reminded this morning:
it's bin day.  if I put my bin on the pavement then together with the cars already parked thereon it's pretty much impassable.  I can't put on the road as there isn't any room between the parked cars.  Or if there is space and I put my bin at the edge of the road to leave the pavement clear, then I find that (either a driver of the bin people) the bin is back on the pavement when I return.
Thus again those with cars having no thought to people using the pavement.

Nor the people organising the bin rules.  A pavement full of wheeliebins is only marginally more passable than a pavement full of cars.

The proper solution is to specify/pay the refuse collectors appropriately so they can collect the bins from wherever they're stored, rather than rendering the pavement impassable for a day and a half every week (plus the duration of missed collections and any industrial action).  Or do the European thing of having large public bins at regular intervals, possibly with more frequent collections.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2019, 05:25:52 pm »
After my earlier post I now have an urge to get hold of a chieftain tank - though my usage of it might vary from navigating a snow-bound pavement.  :demon: :-D
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2019, 05:38:30 pm »
Similarly, as I was reminded this morning:
it's bin day.  if I put my bin on the pavement then together with the cars already parked thereon it's pretty much impassable.  I can't put on the road as there isn't any room between the parked cars.  Or if there is space and I put my bin at the edge of the road to leave the pavement clear, then I find that (either a driver of the bin people) the bin is back on the pavement when I return.
Thus again those with cars having no thought to people using the pavement.

Nor the people organising the bin rules.  A pavement full of wheeliebins is only marginally more passable than a pavement full of cars.

The proper solution is to specify/pay the refuse collectors appropriately so they can collect the bins from wherever they're stored, rather than rendering the pavement impassable for a day and a half every week (plus the duration of missed collections and any industrial action).  Or do the European thing of having large public bins at regular intervals, possibly with more frequent collections.
Our neighbourhood is blessed with generous front gardens and council expects bins within property boundaries but close to pavement. So our pavements don't become a Thursday binfest.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2019, 08:13:40 pm »
Bin parking is a problem. Not every neighbourhood has gardens. The large public bin system works okay where everyone has access to the appropriate bin, but IME that's not always the case. It also reduces the efficiency of recycling, as communal bin, communal recycling tends to equal no one's responsibility. Those obviously are waste disposal and collection problems though, rather than pavement blocks. Bin bags, where they're still used, can be just as cloggy of pavements; although they're usually smaller, they're more untidy and can take up more pavement area. Plus: foxes.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2019, 09:07:50 pm »
Apropos of nothing, cycling home tonight, I passed a row of houses. Front gardens used for parking multiple cars. Tick. Cars double parked on (at least a wide) pavement outside? Tick. Even more cars right by the pavement parked cars on the road itself? Tick.
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