Author Topic: Pavement parking  (Read 3810 times)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Pavement parking
« on: May 17, 2019, 07:17:48 pm »
https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/pavement-parking-17-19/commons-written-submission-form/?fbclid=IwAR1mCdRAwCXBQI154nVjDVAw5KxQz9y9B65Vu7gUmtwzkRC2hI3yAuMkTTA

Should have closed on the 14th, but extended for some reason.

If you think pavement parking is a growing modern nuisance, have your say.

(here is what oxford cycling group had to say, if you want some inspiration https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zHDkxyMWJlQebga4k8XyjHsVaI3xjh0X/view?fbclid=IwAR2y_Ygt62vuCEZMj4vBgxQkZICjHwApAeRN6e0-5Wlrdo4mw0oQ0mB1--g )

n.b. they ask for a WORD FILE or similar - there isn't a plain text box to type in. Odd, but there it is!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2019, 07:22:52 pm »
GPX ?

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2019, 07:26:09 pm »
I responded to that one a while ago.  Another point is that pavement parking often damages the pavement, which is not usually built to support the weight of motor vehicles, creating long-term hazard for disabled people and wheeled pavement users of all kinds.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2019, 07:30:13 pm »
Not having somewhere to put your shit-heap car when you're not using it is a beef of mine.

I'm fully with Japan on this; nowhere off-road to store your car? No car.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 07:38:05 pm »
Can I just write because it's a shitty thing to do. It's a blight here and makes walking frankly unpleasant. It's difficult to use a baby buggy and I imagine impossible for wheelchair users. Anyone of limited mobility will struggle, as will the blind or partially sighted, and for the rest of us, it's annoying to have to periodically step out into a road (and it's often difficult to see over tall cars, especially if you're a shortarse like me). Of course, often the gaps between the pavement parked cars are too narrow to even squeeze out into the road without backtracking several cars. This also increases your chances of meeting an unsympathetic speeding driver.

All said though, I can't see any government changing it for the same reason the local council don't bother with council enforcement. Perhaps the way forward is to make sure pavement accessibility is covered under equality legislation and the sue the fuck out of local councils.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 07:39:10 pm »
Not having somewhere to put your shit-heap car when you're not using it is a beef of mine.

I'm fully with Japan on this; nowhere off-road to store your car? No car.

Bit of a problem if you live in a terraced cottage in a village though. We have several here, front door straight on to the path. There is a bus I suppose. It goes at about 11:00am on a Thursday and comes back at abut 2:00pm the same day. The nearest bus stop with a regular service (once an hour) is about three miles away and that includes a going up and down a steep valley 90m down then 90m up and no path for all of the three miles.  Really a car is the only choice.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2019, 07:47:44 pm »
GPX ?
Stop it - this is a serious social issue!

;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 08:04:52 pm »
Not having somewhere to put your shit-heap car when you're not using it is a beef of mine.

I'm fully with Japan on this; nowhere off-road to store your car? No car.

Bit of a problem if you live in a terraced cottage in a village though. We have several here, front door straight on to the path. There is a bus I suppose. It goes at about 11:00am on a Thursday and comes back at abut 2:00pm the same day. The nearest bus stop with a regular service (once an hour) is about three miles away and that includes a going up and down a steep valley 90m down then 90m up and no path for all of the three miles.  Really a car is the only choice.

I appreciate that I'm a bit radical on this, but maybe people could factor that in when they are purchasing houses?  When I bought my current house, a key factor was distance from where I worked, such that houses outside of my cycleable commute distance were off the radar. If having somewhere to park is a priority, don't look at houses with no parking.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2019, 08:48:17 pm »
What Jasmine says. We chose a house so we weren't reliant on driving – it ultimately is a choice. The irony is that it's a lot more difficult purely because people always drive and we've re-engineered a society around that.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 08:53:09 pm »
I think kei cars (small dimensions, special low-powered engines) are exempt from the off-road parking requirement in Japan.
Never tell me the odds.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 10:20:11 pm »
Not having somewhere to put your shit-heap car when you're not using it is a beef of mine.

I'm fully with Japan on this; nowhere off-road to store your car? No car.

Bit of a problem if you live in a terraced cottage in a village though. We have several here, front door straight on to the path. There is a bus I suppose. It goes at about 11:00am on a Thursday and comes back at abut 2:00pm the same day. The nearest bus stop with a regular service (once an hour) is about three miles away and that includes a going up and down a steep valley 90m down then 90m up and no path for all of the three miles.  Really a car is the only choice.

I appreciate that I'm a bit radical on this, but maybe people could factor that in when they are purchasing houses?  When I bought my current house, a key factor was distance from where I worked, such that houses outside of my cycleable commute distance were off the radar. If having somewhere to park is a priority, don't look at houses with no parking.
Or be prepared to park at the other end of the village. Perhaps in a car park or something. Parking doesn't have to be in your street or even a neighbouring street, just within walking distance (for most people).
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 07:32:41 am »


Or be prepared to park at the other end of the village. Perhaps in a car park or something. Parking doesn't have to be in your street or even a neighbouring street, just within walking distance (for most people).
This idea of having to park directly outside your house is something that seems to have developed slowly over a number of years
When my father got his first car in 1964 he rented a garages street away - this was in Harringay in London - it seemed quite common for the new car owning class to do this. Yes, there were cars parked in the street, but I don't recall many.
Locally (suburban Leicester) I've seen rows of garages / lock-ups demolished to make way for tiny houses - presumably with barely adequate parking spaces.
We have too many cars, too little space, and inadequate alternatives to private car use.



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Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2019, 08:24:31 am »
Have a look at the situation in this Oxford gmaps streetview (2017)...those white lines!?  Wheely bin slalom?
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2019, 09:03:05 am »
Have a look at the situation in this Oxford gmaps streetview (2017)...those white lines!?  Wheely bin slalom?

The council ought to be taken to task for that. Painting a parking box on a pavement doesn't make it legal to park there, so they are encouraging people to park illegally, and like total dicks. It's clear that precisely no thought has been made for anyone who isn't in a vehicle.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2019, 10:06:52 am »

Bit of a problem if you live in a terraced cottage in a village though. We have several here, front door straight on to the path. There is a bus I suppose. It goes at about 11:00am on a Thursday and comes back at abut 2:00pm the same day. The nearest bus stop with a regular service (once an hour) is about three miles away and that includes a going up and down a steep valley 90m down then 90m up and no path for all of the three miles.  Really a car is the only choice.

The problem here isn't the lack of parking for the car, but the lack of appropriate bus services. The bus should run every 15 mins, the bus stop should be 100m or so walk tops.

While people insist that buses have to be run at a profit, this won't happen. Once people realise the purpose of public transport is to transport the public, then perhaps we can move away from the private car.

OOI, how much bike parking is there at the bus stop with the hourly service?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2019, 01:32:46 pm »
Depends what you mean by "run at a profit". Very few UK bus services make a profit from passengers. Most are subsidised. This is part of the problem.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
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Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2019, 01:53:21 pm »
Depends what you mean by "run at a profit". Very few UK bus services make a profit from passengers. Most are subsidised. This is part of the problem.

Bus services being subsidised is not part of the problem.  Bus services not being subsidised enough is part of the problem.
Quote from: Kim
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2019, 01:58:20 pm »
Depends what you mean by "run at a profit". Very few UK bus services make a profit from passengers. Most are subsidised. This is part of the problem.

Bus services being subsidised is not part of the problem.  Bus services not being subsidised enough is part of the problem.
Well, yes, that's kind of what I meant. Because they require subsidies from local councils, who are all skint, they don't get money so they don't run. Though arguably our reluctance to pay the full cost of travel is also part of the bigger problem (and more so with private transport than public).
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2019, 02:05:47 pm »
Have a look at the situation in this Oxford gmaps streetview (2017)...those white lines!?  Wheely bin slalom?

The council ought to be taken to task for that. Painting a parking box on a pavement doesn't make it legal to park there, so they are encouraging people to park illegally, and like total dicks. It's clear that precisely no thought has been made for anyone who isn't in a vehicle.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure there's no general law against parking on a pavement. It's only illegal where a local law prohibits it, which most places don't have. But maybe there's grounds to challenge this scheme under an access law? It really doesn't look as if there's room to get a wheelchair, pushchair or similar along what remains of that pavement. But you can't see why they've done this, as with cars parked both sides there wouldn't otherwise be room for a vehicle to get down the road. There was a case last summer on a road near me where an ambulance couldn't get to the scene of a heart attack, and fire engines face this problem very commonly.

I'd say the root problem is exactly as you say, no thought having been made for anyone who isn't in a vehicle (including those having heart attacks), compounded with too much rather than too little parking.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2019, 02:30:14 pm »
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure there's no general law against parking on a pavement. It's only illegal where a local law prohibits it.
True, but driving on the footway is illegal being precisely the same article of law that forbids cycling.  So how do these vehicles get there?  Are they lifted on by forklift?   I used to ask this in conversation with work colleagues to see the puzzled faces.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2019, 02:32:52 pm »
Pavement parking fines? If the laws about parking on/by junctions were enforced on my estate, they could raise the funds to pay for a few hospitals!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2019, 04:47:53 pm »
Pavement parking is illegal in London. I thought consideration was being given to making this countrywide, but no sign yet.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2019, 10:03:52 pm »
Pavement parking is illegal in London. I thought consideration was being given to making this countrywide, but no sign yet.

See the OP of this thread.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2019, 08:12:26 am »
Pavement parking is illegal in London. I thought consideration was being given to making this countrywide, but no sign yet.

See the OP of this thread.
And sign-up, please!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Pavement parking
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2019, 08:52:41 am »
Have a look at the situation in this Oxford gmaps streetview (2017)...those white lines!?  Wheely bin slalom?

The council ought to be taken to task for that. Painting a parking box on a pavement doesn't make it legal to park there, so they are encouraging people to park illegally, and like total dicks. It's clear that precisely no thought has been made for anyone who isn't in a vehicle.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure there's no general law against parking on a pavement. It's only illegal where a local law prohibits it, which most places don't have. But maybe there's grounds to challenge this scheme under an access law? It really doesn't look as if there's room to get a wheelchair, pushchair or similar along what remains of that pavement. But you can't see why they've done this, as with cars parked both sides there wouldn't otherwise be room for a vehicle to get down the road. There was a case last summer on a road near me where an ambulance couldn't get to the scene of a heart attack, and fire engines face this problem very commonly.

I'd say the root problem is exactly as you say, no thought having been made for anyone who isn't in a vehicle (including those having heart attacks), compounded with too much rather than too little parking.

AFAIK, it is slightly different. The default is no parking on pavements, but that can and is overridden at a local level by the councils who have responsibility for the roads. No roads (?) operated by TfL allow pavement parking. The rationale is not pavement use but pavement damage.