Author Topic: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?  (Read 1438 times)

Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« on: July 31, 2019, 10:51:03 am »
Surely if it's legalised it becomes more socially acceptable and more people (than the huge number who already do in Rochdale) will drive under the influence?

https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/129449/cyclist-airlifted-to-hospital-with-serious-injuries

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 11:32:01 am »
It's impossible to say really.

Maybe existing smokers will smoke openly and won't "need" to hide their smoking in a car? (not defending the driver here)

Maybe people will spend more of their disposable income on cannabis rather than driving, and do away with the car?
2017 - R500 ✅ | 2018 - R1000 ✅ | 2019 - ?

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 11:37:53 am »
I think it's unrealistic to think that people who smoke cannabis will be any more successful than drinkers in separating their addiction from their driving.  As for spending more on drugs therefore less on driving, are they going to stop working, commuting and so on, just in order to smoke cannabis?  I don't think so.

Edit:  people already smoke openly around here, including drivers.  That's why it's so unnerving to contemplate an increase.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2019, 12:47:00 pm »
TBH, I doubt it'll make much difference.  People already smoke the stuff with impunity.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2019, 01:04:54 pm »
This is true, Kim but I'm wondering whether or not there might be an increase when the "cool" factor comes in for youngsters if it is legalised.  I would have thought it is extremely unlikely to result in a reduction.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2019, 01:09:10 pm »
Surely most of the cool factor comes from the fact that it's illegal?

I reckon there'll be an initial surge in law-abiding people using the stuff for the novelty value, but they're unlikely to be the ones combining it with driving, and I expect interest to tail off after a while.  It may become more popular with younger people if it becomes cheaper and easier to obtain, but it's not like they can afford cars anyway.

I expect the main effect would be a reduction in crime, mostly unrelated to the roads.


Anyway, surely there's data from places where it's already been legalised...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2019, 01:28:30 pm »
Driving under the influence will still be illegal, right? So if we actually had any traffic cops, then they could still catch people for it?

Maybe we should spend the VAT from the legal sale of it on traffic police, instead of spending some of the current police budget (theoretically) on stopping it's production and consumption?

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2019, 01:54:09 pm »
If you don't smoke, why would you start - unless cannabis vapes became available, which I guess is possible. Personally tho I'd expect tablets to remain the drug delivery system of choice for most recreational users.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2019, 02:08:41 pm »
Cannabis flavour vapes are available and I'd expect vapes containing THC would become available if legal.

Drugs of all sorts tend to be consumed more widely when they're more socially and legally accepted. In fact the rise of vaping compared to the fall in smoking is a good example, as is the fall in smoking in some countries compared to the continued rise in others where it's less restricted. However, we have prohibition-era USA as an illustration of what can happen when ill-thought out laws collide with huge commercial interests and thousands of years of habit. Cannabis probably isn't at that point yet but it might be soon.

As for the cool factor, if that was purely down to legality, we'd all have been shooting up behind the bike sheds instead of smoking crafty Woodbines.

And as for driving, lately I've noticed fewer nitrous cannisters all over the roads outside the clubs of Stokes Croft. I don't know what has replaced it in clubbers' affections, but whatever it is, it doesn't come in metal or glass. However, last Sunday I noticed a lot of nitrous cannisters on the lanes outside Gloucester, miles from any club. Could be the village youths are meeting up in the fields to sniff it, could be they're driving back from a night out in Gloucester, but either way, I bet it involves driving. I'm not sure how much that affects driving compared to cannabis, but then there are certain places where every other car window wafts a herbal aroma as it is.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 02:12:18 pm »
All the evidence signifies that use actually *goes down* upon legalisation. The Canadians seem to be OK with it and so do the Dutch.

As it stands I ride pass motorists using the devil's lettuce every day. Often at 8am. And it's not even Christmas!
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2019, 02:26:39 pm »
It's a pretty standard feature of south London's roads, and why not, it's not exactly like there are police to enforce any laws.
!nataS pihsroW

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2019, 02:33:31 pm »
I used to live out in the countryside in Berkshire/Buckinghamshire, no less common there tbh. Usually seemed to be people unwinding from their ghastly jobs by bunning a zoot on the drive home.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2019, 05:33:37 pm »
It's a pretty standard feature of south London's roads, and why not, it's not exactly like there are police to enforce any laws.

I'd ride down Hackney Road at 7am and get wafts of it from all sorts of vehicles. Scaffolding trucks, beaten up white vans, blacked out beemers, executive saloons.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2019, 06:12:11 pm »
If you don't smoke, why would you start - unless cannabis vapes became available, which I guess is possible.

I have it on good authority that there's one yclept "WEEED".  Naturally I found this hilarious.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2019, 09:15:37 pm »
Most people are being jolly cuddly about this.  It may be that legalising it might actually reduce use - like everyone else so far, I don't actually know.  I'm pretty sure I read in the reports of the MPs' fact-finding visit to Canada that legalising it hadn't got anywhere near removing criminality.  And if the latter is the reason for promoting legalisation, why take the risk?  Anyway, have another little look at the state of the car.  How fast and invincibly do you have to be driving to lose both your wheels hitting a kerb?  I know it's only a Seat, but come on!  Then I shudder when I look at the remains of the e-bike, which was almost certainly run over.  I don't know whether the poor rider was thrown "clear" by the impact or whether she was still on the machine when it was flattened.  Either way she's seriously injured and I feel seriously disinclined to be cuddly. 

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2019, 10:00:57 pm »
Well, your title wasn't: how horrible is this? It's utterly horrible, whatever the cause. If your point is that this is a horrible thing, whatever the legal status of cannabis, then I don't think you'll get much argument. We've all looked at those photographs and wondered what our friends/family would feel.

I don't understand how

... the MPs' fact-finding visit to Canada that legalising it hadn't got anywhere near removing criminality. 

but maybe you're referring to other criminal acts. As someone has already said, though, presumably driving stoned would still be an offence even if cannabis were legalised.

Frankly, I don't think people should be allowed to drive, however sober they are. But maybe that's not the argument you're looking for.

Why do you say "e-bike"?



L'enfer, c'est les autos.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2019, 09:39:13 am »
Legalizing it won't remove criminality or many of the problems of cannabis use but, on balance, making it illegal has made for even more problems. People drive stoned all the time (and to be honest, probably drunk) – I cycle through south London and there's no policing of the roads. Effectively none. I see the occasional police car zoom by to an emergency or to attend the inevitable accident (last Friday was a motorscooter vs. car). It's not reasonable to expect not to be pulled over by the police, so any deterrence effect is effectively moot. Same for speeding etc.

The only time I've been knocked in London (thankfully a leisurely slide over the bonnet of a car that pulled out in front of me) was by a driver who stopped to dispose of an enormous joint down the nearest drain (and then, halfway to see if I was OK, stopped to go back and turn on his indicator). The police neglected to add my mention of that to their notes, presumably because they couldn't be bothered testing him or looking for it.
!nataS pihsroW

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2019, 09:49:43 am »
The legal treatment of cannabis use is way out of step with all other 'recreational' drugs so it's about time they did something.  As people have said, people are driving whilst stoned anyway so I don't really personally see it making much difference.
What is ridiculous to my mind is that you can quite happily be given morphine and a plethora of other really hard narcotics by your GP if you're in pain or whatever - to the point where quiet opiate addiction and its long term health implications in the suburbs is now making headlines - but if you want to get some THC to - say - treat your badly epileptic daughter or perhaps use it as the only really decent treatment for MS (please correct me if I'm wrong here) - then you have to travel to Amsterdam under your own expense, then have it confiscated at customs because well 'drugs are baaad, mmmkay.'
Morphine, heroin, cocaine, diazepam, amphetamines..... they're all OK to be got on prescription here... but political and legal heads go bananananas over the much milder drug THC.


And that's without bothering to mention ethanol or nicotine (at least so far)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2019, 10:12:34 am »
Many of the purported medical uses of cannabis are unproven and overstated by supporters of legalization (as it further their cause, of course). Personally, I think all drugs should be decriminalized if for no better reason than criminalizing them obviously and evidently doesn't work and creates far more problems and worse problems at that. But there will still be problems, like driving under the influence of said drugs, but these should be dealt with as we would for currently legal drugs. People driving stoned isn't a drug problem per se, it's a policing problem.
!nataS pihsroW

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2019, 10:44:33 am »
If you don't smoke, why would you start - unless cannabis vapes became available, which I guess is possible. Personally tho I'd expect tablets to remain the drug delivery system of choice for most recreational users.
Marketing. Dealers might be cool but they don't have the reach of Tesco and BAT, nor do they offer the "novel forms" (not just vaping but heated, oral and whatever else the boffins have thought up) and they don't cooperate with Saatchi & Saatchi.

If cannabis ever replaced alcohol as society's drug of choice (which I think is extremely unlikely whatever the legal and commercial situation) it might not be a bad thing, but the point of the thread was (I thought) more specific. If you have more users of (alcohol, cannabis, amphetamines, etc) you clearly have more people under the influence of (alcohol, cannabis, amphetamines, etc) and that includes driving, working with machinery, and so on. But it could also make it easier to have guidelines and laws regulating how much influence. A legal limit on THC along the lines of that for alcohol, cheesy publicity campaigns like "Don't be a dope! Smoking and driving, no hope of surviving!" None of which will make any difference unless we decide we're also a society that believes in policing.
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2019, 12:26:34 pm »

Why do you say "e-bike"?

Because I was thinking "that's an e-bike" as I looked again at the picture while writing that post.  Obviously, the type of bike makes no difference. What's the stuff lying beneath the bottom bracket?  Or is it a component from something else?

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2019, 12:48:45 pm »
It's the wing mirror, presumably removed from the car by the cyclist on impact.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2019, 02:19:14 pm »
Many of the purported medical uses of cannabis are unproven and overstated by supporters of legalization (as it further their cause, of course). Personally, I think all drugs should be decriminalized if for no better reason than criminalizing them obviously and evidently doesn't work and creates far more problems and worse problems at that. But there will still be problems, like driving under the influence of said drugs, but these should be dealt with as we would for currently legal drugs. People driving stoned isn't a drug problem per se, it's a policing problem.

It would be instructive were someone with more energy than this Unit to mine out the "before" and "after" data for Portugal.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2019, 04:59:30 pm »
Policing problem? The party of law and order got rid of loads of police. They have pretty much stopped policing traffic.

Re: Legalise cannabis to get more of this?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2019, 05:58:27 pm »
It's the wing mirror, presumably removed from the car by the cyclist on impact.

Thanks, Duncan - I see that now.