Author Topic: Cheating - maybe?  (Read 11331 times)

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #175 on: September 11, 2019, 09:03:53 am »


Long distance cycling has generally been determined by the available technology and media of the time. My heyday was in the photocopier era. We are now in the Blog/Strava era. Where if you're not careful, your enthusiasm to show off can land you in trouble.
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Update: The Instagram Era.

Just about all the cycling activity I follow is on Instagram - blogs are great, I still read and write them, but Instagram is where the conversation and blow by blow updates happen. It's the default news feed for those over about 21. And if Instagram is the outside face of a 'scene' then Whatsapp is the tool of choice for the 'insiders' whether that is your clubmates, communities of insiders like dotwarchers, like minded souls or, like on PBP, a bunch of ACME reprobates trying to drag their sorry arses over the line in less than 90 hours (with apologies to Tomsk in recognition of his casually dispatched sub 80). Strava I can live without, Instagram not a chance.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #176 on: September 11, 2019, 10:40:13 am »
I got approached by a rider at Brest in 2015. He was some sort of librarian, who archived material about cycling. He said that my films were useful to him, as they captured the essence of the event as he was experiencing it. That was important to him as there was so much 'noise'. His feeling was that became more important as more films were being produced.

I was also approached a while ago by the keeper of the Guardian's archive. I'd filmed a book launch they did on Great Gable in 2007. One of the speakers was the Guardian's librarian, and he's ensured that they've got that video as a record.   I've got to decide what the key points are, and ensure the edit covers them.

Cheating at PBP is an interesting issue. The front group is well observed once it has coalesced, although the profusion of starts means that the early progress of the B,C,D and E groups is more obscure. It's reassuring that riders such as Anco de Jong and Marko Baloh made their way up from group B, as they are obvious candidates to chase a group down.

The women's race is different. That takes place among a larger group of high standard male club riders. In the 24 hour TT the women's record is equivalent to a good club record, while the men's record is 15% or so further. That means that a fast woman has a greater potential to find groups. If she can climb, and follow a wheel, then a good time is within her reach. But away from the main group, riders sleep more, so you can't be sure that they'll want to go leave controls promptly. That's where a non-entered 'ringer', would be useful.

The greater the prestige attaching to a 'win', the greater the incentive to 'cheat'. I've seen the profile of female long distance cycling develop. I got bothered to film Jasmijn Muller's LEJOG in 2017, but she never made it as far as where I live. In 2018 she did, but it was my birthday, and couldn't be bothered.

A bike ride is by nature ephemeral, and while it's going on, it's appropriate that it utilises ephemeral media. I assume there's even a snapchat subtext. But ultimately, the mainstream media is the aim, and not just the online cycling blogs. Fiona Kolbinger achieved that with her TCR win, and that made the national press and the BBC.

Female empowerment is very much part of the zeitgeist. But I live with a fully empowered female, who is a national champion in her field, and a PBP ancienne who has run an LEL control five times.

So I'm left wondering if I can cover PBP 2019 with the material I've got, or if it requires more interviews. I prefer interviews during the course of the event, as they are less prone to 'spin'.

The velomobile win is also interesting, but I'm not a recumbent enthusiast. So I can leave that to someone else to chronicle.

Jack_P

  • It's just dicking about on bikes
    • Cycling hobo
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #177 on: October 29, 2019, 02:46:29 pm »
It looks like the fastest woman was paced round PBP by someone who wasn't even entered in the event.

Not sure whether that breaks any rules or is considered as 'cheating' but to me it definitely doesn't feel 'right'.

Just leave this here. https://thegasmanonabike.wordpress.com/paris-brest-paris-1200km-race-2019/

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #178 on: October 30, 2019, 07:41:17 am »
It looks like the fastest woman was paced round PBP by someone who wasn't even entered in the event.

Not sure whether that breaks any rules or is considered as 'cheating' but to me it definitely doesn't feel 'right'.

Just leave this here. https://thegasmanonabike.wordpress.com/paris-brest-paris-1200km-race-2019/

I like that satirical write-up. It captures the mindset of someone who has completely misunderstood the event perfectly. Not finding the first-floor restaurant at Tinteniac is a nice detail.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #179 on: October 30, 2019, 08:31:24 am »
It looks like the fastest woman was paced round PBP by someone who wasn't even entered in the event.

Not sure whether that breaks any rules or is considered as 'cheating' but to me it definitely doesn't feel 'right'.

Just leave this here. https://thegasmanonabike.wordpress.com/paris-brest-paris-1200km-race-2019/

I like that satirical write-up. It captures the mindset of someone who has completely misunderstood the event perfectly. Not finding the first-floor restaurant at Tinteniac is a nice detail.

Elsewhere...
Quote
I set off near the front, and there was 2 man breakaway right from the gun.  Of course, it’s not a race and a personal endurance strategy is essential for timely completion, however all I could see was red mist as I chased them down.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #180 on: October 30, 2019, 09:22:00 am »
So there’s your proof that a top rider was paced by another rider not on the event.

But my takeaway from the other comment in the article is that this seems to be relatively common behaviour in sportives.  The author claims it’s a strategy his club/team have used to secure high finishes for their team.

I find myself very uncomfortable with this, but I’d also have to ask why you’d bother ?

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #181 on: October 30, 2019, 09:38:55 am »
It looks like the fastest woman was paced round PBP by someone who wasn't even entered in the event.

Not sure whether that breaks any rules or is considered as 'cheating' but to me it definitely doesn't feel 'right'.

Just leave this here. https://thegasmanonabike.wordpress.com/paris-brest-paris-1200km-race-2019/

I like that satirical write-up. It captures the mindset of someone who has completely misunderstood the event perfectly. Not finding the first-floor restaurant at Tinteniac is a nice detail.
.

  :thumbsup:   I read it with increasing amusement, maybe it was bemusement. 

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #182 on: October 30, 2019, 09:54:40 am »
I mentioned on a different thread that there are a lot of under prepared riders out there.   This was met with comments along the lines of ‘everyone was a beginner once’.  Fair enough.

Not knowing that Mortagne was only a control on the way back ?  It’s not like that information isn’t readily available in many places beforehand.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #183 on: October 30, 2019, 11:34:43 am »
PBP as a race is something of an overlay on the basic structure. It is avowedly non-competitive, but as the times are published, it can't escape being seen as one. The media are to blame, as they like to have the race angle to play with. The growth of new media has made that even more ambiguous.

I don't take 'adventure racing' very seriously, as I can't see how it can be adequately observed. For me, the only reliable indication is how well the 'adventure' riders perform in the '24', then we know that they aren't being paced. Riders of sufficient class don't have to blog, journalists report on them.

So, as the racing is taking place within the racers' own parameters, it's difficult to say whar constitutes cheating or not.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #184 on: October 31, 2019, 01:18:39 am »
It isn't as if PBP has recently lost its purity, originally a race and at the pointy end probably always a race, in the video linked to by Damon a while back (1991 PBP, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOnf1ksMKZ0 at 7:18) we have the then ACP President saying of the 80 hour group, "let us be clear, here it is a race". I admire more the riders who, without the benefit of motor homes, pacers, private support still manage to just scrape in with minutes to spare.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #185 on: October 31, 2019, 06:17:38 am »
I admire more the riders who, without the benefit of motor homes, pacers, private support still manage to just scrape in with minutes to spare.

So you would admire somebody who "scrapes" in with minutes to spare by riding fast, eating well, sleeping well and "wasting" 3hrs having a meal in Rambouillet just so he can come in just before 90hr cut off to the adulation of the crowd, over somebody who rode well, hardly stopped, 1 1/2hrs sleep, many stops for diarrhoea, arrived to half a dozen people with no clapping, no cheering, no fanfare in under 55hrs, both of whom were unsupported in any way shape or form?

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #186 on: October 31, 2019, 07:09:31 am »
It isn't as if PBP has recently lost its purity, originally a race and at the pointy end probably always a race, in the video linked to by Damon a while back (1991 PBP, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOnf1ksMKZ0 at 7:18) we have the then ACP President saying of the 80 hour group, "let us be clear, here it is a race". I admire more the riders who, without the benefit of motor homes, pacers, private support still manage to just scrape in with minutes to spare.

The question is whether the performance of anyone who benefited from Carlos's pacing is also infringing the letter of the rules, even though they might not have been aware of Carlos's lack of an entry. The absence of a number would be a clue.

The race aspect of PBP Randonneur was reintroduced due to pressure from the US contingent. The Randonneurs didn't publish their times, and it was the influence of RAAM that led to the current situation. Some UK Audaxers responded by riding at a good pace, then having a good meal before the end to get a long time. That 'Old Guard' would be amused by the farcical aspects of this year's event at the sharp end.

A number of constructions can be erected around the facts of PBP 2019. I favour a Marko Baloh win in the traditional 'race'. The female event was marred by the attention paid to the Transcontinental, which raised the publicity stakes.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #187 on: October 31, 2019, 01:47:21 pm »
So there’s your proof that a top rider was paced by another rider not on the event.

But my takeaway from the other comment in the article is that this seems to be relatively common behaviour in sportives.  The author claims it’s a strategy his club/team have used to secure high finishes for their team.

I find myself very uncomfortable with this, but I’d also have to ask why you’d bother ?

Knowing the author and the two riders that were helped out, I am pretty confident that all the "Gorillas" mentioned as helping them round would have been paying to ride the event as well. It is just written in a slightly ambiguous way, nothing wrong in team mates helping each other round if they have all entered the same event (as long as it doesn't break the event rules).