Author Topic: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms  (Read 2099 times)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2019, 03:57:48 pm »
The line is neither blue nor purple, it's pink! At least on my screen.

It was much easier when it was dotted grey...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

diapsaon0

  • Advena ego sum in terra
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2019, 03:59:47 pm »
I did buy an Edge Touring some time ago, seduced by the blurb saying it was just like a car sat nav.  It wasn't and I couldn't make head nor tail ot of it, so sold it on the Bay.
Advena ego sum in Terra

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2019, 04:02:36 pm »
Most dedicated audaxers seem to use a phone nowadays, in connection with a dynamo charger such as Igaro, rather than a specific GPS.

Blimey, what audaxes have you been on where this has been true? Most people are still taking the approach of buying an expensive piece of general purpose hardware that's very similar to a piece of general purpose hardware they already own, but can only ever run one app.

(Or is this a "no true dedicated audaxer" situation?)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2019, 04:12:44 pm »
I did buy an Edge Touring some time ago, seduced by the blurb saying it was just like a car sat nav.  It wasn't and I couldn't make head nor tail ot of it, so sold it on the Bay.

Car satnavs, following the TomTom model of usability, do about three things well (turn an address into coordinates, calculate a motor-vehicle-appropriate route to it, provide simple prompts for a driver who doesn't have time to study the screen), and some fail spectacularly at those.  Which is fine in a car, because you're rarely interested in the details of the route, and most of the arbitrary routing decisions are of little consequence.  You could use one on a bike, and it would probably be okay-ish if your cycling was urban utility riding from A to B without too much aversion to main roads.

As soon as you want to do something more complicated ("use *these* kind of roads", "follow *this* exact route", "don't keep leading me up bastard hills", "pace my training ride") your car satnav will be sorely lacking, and everything else will likely be as complicated as your requirements actually are, because the common assumptions the designer can make about what the user wants go straight out of the window.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2019, 04:43:41 pm »
Most dedicated audaxers seem to use a phone nowadays, in connection with a dynamo charger such as Igaro, rather than a specific GPS.

Much as I'd love a large screen waterproof phone with long battery life for Audax. On a recumbent I'd just end up hitting my knees / thighs on the phone.

I use an eTrex 20, cos Audax.  The screen is not the best, and is terrible if bright sunlight direct on it. Not so bad on the recumbent where the GPS is mounted in a vertical position and closer to the face.

I do still have an earlier Edge 500 which was hopeless for navigating anything over about 50 miles (the usual crash distance). But if not navigating then it's stable over distance and can be useful for other stuff such as HR or laps or the virtual partner feature if "training". Mostly the Edge 500 goes on my wife's bike if she comes out riding.

I did have an edge 205 back in around 2004 which was stable for navigating distance and handled tracks up to 13000 points. But the rubber seal / buttons went on it around 2008.

I do like the new feature of later GPS of being able to load new routes / tracks from a phone whilst touring. Like Kim there will be lots of pondering when the eTrex 20 bites the dust at some point in the future.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2019, 05:02:57 pm »
I also have a 520 that currently lives on the turbo trainer.   I have never used it for navigation, purely for recording rides.   Would it work as a back up to be carried on longer rides ?
Not really. The map storage capacity is pants- I used one for a couple of years and if I ever went away from home (like, 60 miles from home) I'd have to reload the map so that it covered where I was going. This very quickly becomes a monumental PITA.

The 530 is much better. I have a 520 Plus which was a mistake- if I'd waited a month, there'd have been a 530 to buy. AIUI the 530 has a faster processor which is a definite failing on my 520+ which takes forever to do anything requiring thinks.

TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

S2L

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2019, 05:18:03 pm »
Just follow the purple line, and you'll be fine...  :thumbsup:

That's one strategy (and probably a good one if you're used to navigating with a paper map), but it still requires some skills.  You've got to be able to know that the blue line is purple for a start.  And get the data that defines the line into the GPS receiver so it can be displayed.  Plus all your usual map-following skills like not riding past junctions because you're not paying attention[1] at the critical moment.


[1] This is of course one of the more useful things that a GPS receiver can help you with.  Which means learning how to make it light up and beep at turns (for which there are various strategies)...

You really need something a bit more modern. All the features you mentioned are built in these days... it's more a case of opting out the default settings if you don't want an alert every time there is a turn or you miss one.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2019, 06:24:56 pm »
Most dedicated audaxers seem to use a phone nowadays, in connection with a dynamo charger such as Igaro, rather than a specific GPS.

We know very different audaxers.

Most I know overhere use a garmin of some flavour, with a couple of wahoo users.

Of course, we all know from previous threads on here that most UK audaxers are still printing out the cryptic route sheets and pinning them to their arm...

Crikey!  The more I read this thread, the happier I am with a half-inch OS map (that dates me) and an old Silva compass which cost me 7/6 (37.5 new pence) when I was in the Boy Scouts - circa 1968.

Has scalability issues. Carrying a 1/2" map for lejog, or a ride across Europe would be excessively bulky...

Blimey, what audaxes have you been on where this has been true? Most people are still taking the approach of buying an expensive piece of general purpose hardware that's very similar to a piece of general purpose hardware they already own, but can only ever run one app.

(Or is this a "no true dedicated audaxer" situation?)

Everything is just a general purpose computer being abused somehow...

I do still have an earlier Edge 500 which was hopeless for navigating anything over about 50 miles (the usual crash distance). But if not navigating then it's stable over distance and can be useful for other stuff such as HR or laps or the virtual partner feature if "training". Mostly the Edge 500 goes on my wife's bike if she comes out riding.

You're using the device to do the navigation? not just as a way of displaying a line on the screen to follow?

Quote
I do like the new feature of later GPS of being able to load new routes / tracks from a phone whilst touring. Like Kim there will be lots of pondering when the eTrex 20 bites the dust at some point in the future.

Yeah, being able to load new routes, and change config, on the go, using my phone is a wonderful feature of the wahoo. Much simpler than trying to use any limited interface that most gps units have.

I also like having proper buttons, something some garmin's don't do. I can operate the wahoo even with my big mittens on.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2019, 07:09:21 pm »
I also like having proper buttons, something some garmin's don't do. I can operate the wahoo even with my big mittens on.

I dislike touchscreens generally, but this is a big part of why I don't want one on a cycling GPS.  The eTrex joystick is hardly a triumph of ergonomics, but it doesn't become any more awkward when you operate it with cold wet fingers or chunky gloves on.

Rubber buttons with no tactile feedback are acceptable if the UI is sufficiently responsive.  Membrane switches can get to fuck.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2019, 07:47:03 pm »
Raindrops activating the touchscreen of some device were mentioned upthread. I don't know if it relates to the same model, but I've heard others complain about rain-activated GPS touchscreens. (I find my phone touchscreen has the opposite but related problem when its surface is wet – it ceases to respond to my finger.)
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2019, 09:05:10 pm »
http://www.lecycle.fr/article/19878-essai-du-compteur-wahoo-elemnt-bolt-un-eclair-de-simplicite
This is what turns me off a Wahoo (and any other device using a similar design philosophy) Sorry it's in french! I know this is journalese but the information probably comes straight from Wahoo.

On the subject of AAs against USB. For me the GPS is not an everyday device. It might see 3 or 4 outings a year (the nature of audaxing in la "France profonde" is that the 200s are grouped into the first 6 Months of the season so without doing ridiculous car mileages it is unlikely that I would do more than 2. Other than that a bit of route tracing and that's your lot. Anything more would be playing with a toy or gadget, not mission critical. I could do that on a set of rechargeables recharged for each occasion or just put new batteries in it. The thing with USB is that you have to know and have confidence in the device's charge indicator if you are only using it occasionally. My camera is a case in point. It's pretty good but sometimes I get caught out; it's not mission critical though.

I of course don't mind missing the occasional turni on non critical rides. Sometimes that produces some of my most enjoyable rides, discovering or rediscovering things that I hadn't noticed before.

Mounts are not that critical for me; I don't want more stuff on my bars. It will probably go in the map pocket of a barbag or in a phone bag mounted on the top tube (my counter is normally mounted on the top tube.
I do have budget limits. The Wahoo and most of the Edges are outside it (although the Edge Explore isn't; I might need to look again at that one.) the thing with the Etrex20 is that, obsolete technology or not, it appears to do what I want.

S2L

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2019, 09:09:14 pm »
the thing with the Etrex20 is that, obsolete technology or not, it appears to do what I want.

I still have one and it works very well. Not so great in urban areas though... I've taken the wrong exit at roundabouts many a times

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2019, 09:30:03 pm »
the thing with the Etrex20 is that, obsolete technology or not, it appears to do what I want.

I still have one and it works very well. Not so great in urban areas though... I've taken the wrong exit at roundabouts many a times

Is that a mapping problem or a limitation in the actual technology, hard or soft? My daughter (whose job is with computerised mapping and gps applications) always says that the problem with gps devices is often that the cartography is out of date or simply inaccurate (she works to 5m I think so it needs to be right).

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2019, 09:59:31 pm »
I reckon it's a bit of both, but I think there's a UI issue there too:  There is no one zoom setting that gives you all the detail you need for complicated junctions while showing you enough of the bigger picture to prepare you for what's coming next (which may in itself clarify what you're supposed to be doing at the junction).  Autozoom helps, but sometimes hinders.  On a car sat-nav it would usually solve this through a split-screen display.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

S2L

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2019, 07:03:23 am »
the thing with the Etrex20 is that, obsolete technology or not, it appears to do what I want.

I still have one and it works very well. Not so great in urban areas though... I've taken the wrong exit at roundabouts many a times

Is that a mapping problem or a limitation in the actual technology, hard or soft? My daughter (whose job is with computerised mapping and gps applications) always says that the problem with gps devices is often that the cartography is out of date or simply inaccurate (she works to 5m I think so it needs to be right).

The 200 doesn't have maps... it's a line that follows some GPS coordinates. You just follow the line... As you get to a complicated junction, it's often hard to work out which road the line is taking.

That said, it's all you need for rural routes

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2019, 08:50:44 am »
The eTrex 20 is fine.  I bought Garmin's City Navigator Europe maps fr ~50€ and they were adequate for everything Audax I wanted to do, including navigating across Nancy on a 600 in 2011 where the route sheet was just a list of places to get stamps.  OK, I had plotted a wee purple line in advance but some roads turned out to be voies rapides and others were wrong-way streets. I had no trouble deviating quite a way off-route and navigating back to it.

Of course the eTrex 20 doesn't just show you the route you want to take, it also records where you've been, which can be nice to look back on later.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2019, 09:11:26 am »
When your background is classic map navigation I'd suggest starting out with an etrex 20 or 30 since the learning curve will be less steep. You can basically use it in the 'follow line on the map' mode. You can decide yoruself if north has to be on top or your direction, depending on how you usually read your paper maps.
Topic not touched yet, the open fiets map is excellent for MZjo's area.
Knowing the terrain there I'd suggest the 30 since you will have extra data available showing you how long the climb is ahead so you can pace your ride.

I'd advise to carry the GPS also on several local rides so you get used to it on known terrain before you use it where you really need it.

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2019, 09:33:10 am »
the thing with the Etrex20 is that, obsolete technology or not, it appears to do what I want.

I still have one and it works very well. Not so great in urban areas though... I've taken the wrong exit at roundabouts many a times

Is that a mapping problem or a limitation in the actual technology, hard or soft? My daughter (whose job is with computerised mapping and gps applications) always says that the problem with gps devices is often that the cartography is out of date or simply inaccurate (she works to 5m I think so it needs to be right).

The 200 doesn't have maps... it's a line that follows some GPS coordinates. You just follow the line... As you get to a complicated junction, it's often hard to work out which road the line is taking.

That said, it's all you need for rural routes

This is where you've caused confusion. The eTrex 20 is not the 200. The eTrex 20 can show both Garmin and custom maps. So you meant the 200 when you say you went wrong. Mind the most inattentive rider can ignore even the best navigational info and go wrong.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2019, 11:07:08 am »
http://www.lecycle.fr/article/19878-essai-du-compteur-wahoo-elemnt-bolt-un-eclair-de-simplicite
This is what turns me off a Wahoo (and any other device using a similar design philosophy) Sorry it's in french! I know this is journalese but the information probably comes straight from Wahoo.

That's markettingease aimed at a specific market segment, the iphone+carbon crowd. Assuming that google comedy conversion isn't too far off the mark.

Yes you can use the device that way. But you don't have to. It's a shame there seems to be nothing out there for people who don't have a smart phone surgically attached to them.

Quote
On the subject of AAs against USB. For me the GPS is not an everyday device. It might see 3 or 4 outings a year (the nature of audaxing in la "France profonde" is that the 200s are grouped into the first 6 Months of the season so without doing ridiculous car mileages it is unlikely that I would do more than 2. Other than that a bit of route tracing and that's your lot. Anything more would be playing with a toy or gadget, not mission critical. I could do that on a set of rechargeables recharged for each occasion or just put new batteries in it. The thing with USB is that you have to know and have confidence in the device's charge indicator if you are only using it occasionally. My camera is a case in point. It's pretty good but sometimes I get caught out; it's not mission critical though.

Ah, round these part the 200's are grouped into the first 12 months of the year...

I must admit I have now gone and put a wahoo mount on my Brompton, and use my bolt even for city riding, mostly it gives me a basic map display, and speed. I didn't buy the device with that in mind, it's a nice bonus tho.

I used to be of the mind the AA/AAA battery is a good idea, you can get them anywhere, you can carry spare sets etc... But the reality I find is that the hope vision 1 light on my Brompton, that takes 4 AA rechargables, lasts long enough between charges for me to have lost the charger. Where as I'm setup for recharging usb stuff, there's a multi port wallwort by the the bed with 3 cables pluged in (µUSB + USB-C), there's another one next to the sofa, with 3 cables hanging out. This is the norm for many people my age and younger. It's easier for me to find a usb socket to charge from in my flat than a mains socket, and even harder if you are picky which type of mains socket (some are BS 1363, some are schuko).

Each to their own.

Quote
I of course don't mind missing the occasional turni on non critical rides. Sometimes that produces some of my most enjoyable rides, discovering or rediscovering things that I hadn't noticed before.

Mounts are not that critical for me; I don't want more stuff on my bars. It will probably go in the map pocket of a barbag or in a phone bag mounted on the top tube (my counter is normally mounted on the top tube.
I do have budget limits. The Wahoo and most of the Edges are outside it (although the Edge Explore isn't; I might need to look again at that one.) the thing with the Etrex20 is that, obsolete technology or not, it appears to do what I want.

The mount can be critical to the usability of the device. Can you read the screen through the map pocket plastic, in sunlight? or in the rain? or in rain and sunlight?

Some of the riders I've picked up on audaxes have been thinking they could put their mobile in case, or bar bag, or top tube bag, and read the screen through that for nav. Only to find it hasn't worked.

I'd advise to carry the GPS also on several local rides so you get used to it on known terrain before you use it where you really need it.

This, very much this.

You may even find in doing so that the device becomes more indispensable than you anticipated.

Good luck, and have fun!

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2019, 11:52:20 am »
Think I have four pairs of AAs for use in the eTrex 20. They all have different coloured dots on them, so I always use the same pair together. I have two small boxes for putting uncharged batteries and charged ones. I only use the GPS for my longer rides or Audax. Locally as I know the roads I don't take the GPS. If I used the GPS every day I might prefer USB charging, but as it is I always have a set of AAs  to go, and don't need to charge all that often.  A charged set will see me through three 200km audaxes, though I'll usually take a spare set for the last in a series of three.

As for USB leads everywhere I don't think that's too much of an age thing.  I'd say a majority of households have USB charging leads permanently plugged in somewhere in their house / flats. Certainly the case here. The AA charger lives in a charging and adapter drawer.  For instance my cameras still need you to remove the batteries to charge, and all the batteries / charges are different.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2019, 01:38:25 pm »
Think I have four pairs of AAs for use in the eTrex 20. They all have different coloured dots on them, so I always use the same pair together. I have two small boxes for putting uncharged batteries and charged ones. I only use the GPS for my longer rides or Audax. Locally as I know the roads I don't take the GPS. If I used the GPS every day I might prefer USB charging, but as it is I always have a set of AAs  to go, and don't need to charge all that often.  A charged set will see me through three 200km audaxes, though I'll usually take a spare set for the last in a series of three.

As for USB leads everywhere I don't think that's too much of an age thing.  I'd say a majority of households have USB charging leads permanently plugged in somewhere in their house / flats. Certainly the case here. The AA charger lives in a charging and adapter drawer.  For instance my cameras still need you to remove the batteries to charge, and all the batteries / charges are different.

The big battery charger lives on top of the fridge with an ice-cream box next to it for the batteries. USB chargers are everywhere but the effect of living with a big adolescent daughter is that the chances of finding a working cable not being used are virtually nul. And my wife regularly unplugs the bedroom clock connecting her tablet to the charger. When there isn't a battery ready for the telecommand for the tele, mediasat, dvd player etc the shit really hits the fan! (Not to mention a wireless mouse that risks being fed to the cat!)