Author Topic: Road designers suck  (Read 3310 times)

Socks

  • FFCT rally, France 2012
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2020, 02:29:41 pm »
What I found in my dissertation research is that successful, transformative and rapid transportation/built environment reform has NEVER come from 'good governance'. The Dutch systems, Bogota cycleways, Copenhagen layout etc stem from direct action by grassroots community groups against road building and traffic on the grounds of environmental health and safety, particularly in the wake of the 1970s oil shocks and anarchist traditions like the Provo ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_(movement) ). The UK 'solutions' are always 'the government should do x y z technical fix (e.g. adjust road designs) to change the incentives' which is not historically proven to work, or at the least, work in a satisfyingly swift fashion. What is historically proven to work, and work very quickly, is enough people getting really mad and angry, and forcing the powers-that-be's hand on pain of mass, direct, disruptive action.





One of my favourite Provo schemes is this one:

Quote
White Victim Plan: proposed that anyone having caused death while driving would have to build a warning memorial on the site of the traffic collision by carving the victim's outline one inch deep into the pavement and filling it with white mortar.[4]

Although our government now classifies this sort of democratic protest as terrorism (eg Extinction Rebellion is now on the official 'prevent' list as an extremist activity or organisation).

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2020, 02:46:25 pm »
Public transport especially really needs to be designed to transport the public, that means going where people want to go, and when they want to go, not just when it is most profitable to transport them. 

Fundamentally people have to get to understand the they can't just go to where they went, when they want. That is only possible with cheap dino-fuel.

This is it really, we've created an unsustainable transport paradigm that is only facilitated by cheap fuel (ultimately it's not cheap, of course). Yes, people might have to send their kids to school five minutes earlier, wait 10 minutes for a bus, etc. If the journey is too painful to contemplate, then who knows, we might start to see local shops recover.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2020, 03:59:57 pm »
There are all sorts of stupid conflicts within local government about RPZs as well.  At one stage, Oxford City Council introduced RPZs in Headington because they wanted people to use the Park and Ride instead of clogging up the roads driving to where parking was free (and cheaper to get the the bus). Oxfordshire County Council observed this, and then made every resident pay for their parking permit. Their reasoning was that in other parts of the county, the parking permit was introduced by request from the residents, and therefore a charging scheme was set up to pay for it!

Not sure I understand this. Was the city issuing permits for free? When you say "every resident" does this mean the county literally charged every resident for a permit, a bit like a component of council tax, even if they had no car? Or something else?
The parking spaces (in particular areas of the city) were not controlled in any way, and there was no problem with availability.
The City Council made all the on-road parking spaces RPZ, with the intention of allowing residents to apply for permits for free (because the purpose was to stop non-locals parking there and get them to use the Park and Ride which was free at the time).
The County Council applied a fee on the permit issuing process.

End result - to force non-residents to use P&R, they charged residents to park on their streets.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2020, 04:18:58 pm »
Got it, thanks.  :thumbsup:
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2020, 04:20:13 pm »
Although our government now classifies this sort of democratic protest as terrorism (eg Extinction Rebellion is now on the official 'prevent' list as an extremist activity or organisation).

They're not: https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/01/11/world/europe/ap-eu-britain-climate-protests.html
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2020, 04:39:49 pm »
I'm sorry but while the letter of the document doesn't say 'these groups are terrorists', the notion that they were just put in the same documentation as ISIS, The Continuity IRA, National Action and the Orange Volunteers for 'information purposes' is crazy. It is a deliberate decision to besmirch legitimate groups, including Critical Mass riders by the way, and psychologically associate them with terrorists who the fuzz can bang up in prison. It's a disgrace.
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Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2020, 04:41:33 pm »
Sure, but they aren't on the "official 'prevent' list".
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2020, 04:55:00 pm »
Sure, but they aren't on the "official 'prevent' list".
They were. And while everyone else was saying it was daft (including some of the police forces) our Home Secretary defended the decision to include them:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/13/priti-patel-defends-decision-add-extinction-rebellion-anti-terrorism/

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2020, 05:02:26 pm »
Sure, but they aren't on the "official 'prevent' list".

I am the national Prevent Lead for my organisation.

There is no "official 'Prevent' list" (as opposed to the list of Proscribed Terrorist Organisations, which is a different thing altogether).  The Home Office and other relevant parties issue various pieces of guidance.  Counter-terrorism police in the South East of England involved in Prevent training issued guidance/a briefing which included non-violent protest groups - and these groups were included alongside violent extremist groups.

This was deliberate.  No-one would have credibly included the range of non-violent protest groups 'by mistake'.  One also only has to look at the response of various government officials and minister (e.g. the loathsome Priti Patel) to see where this approach is coming from.

This has led to the further undermining of the credibility of the Prevent programme - which does, in many cases, do important work.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2020, 09:42:17 am »
While trying to underpin another arguement I was having on the internet ::-), I did some research and actually found myself to be quite wrong.

I was banging the 'over-population' drum as being the reason for our cities congested roads and woeful parking situation, but found that my cities population had *only* increased by 35,000 since 1950, while in the same time frame households owning A car (nationally) went from <10% to >85% having multiple cars attached to them.

We've sleep-walked into this. It makes me ill looking around at all the cars littering pavements and turning any strip of grass near houses into a muddy quaqmire.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2020, 11:33:50 am »
'Population' is basically never the problem under any circumstances. There's a reason it crops up in Daily Heil comment sections!
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2020, 04:13:49 pm »
Cars are one of those many things which are a great idea when hardly anyone has one and absolutely shite when most most people have them.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2020, 08:29:34 pm »
Cars are one of those many things which are a great idea when hardly anyone has one and absolutely shite when most most people have them.
Children ??   :-)
Rust never sleeps

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2020, 09:28:50 pm »
Cars are one of those many things which are a great idea when hardly anyone has one and absolutely shite when most most people have them.
Children ??   :-)

Computers...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2020, 09:31:59 pm »
Cars are one of those many things which are a great idea when hardly anyone has one and absolutely shite when most most people have them.
Children ??   :-)

Computers...
Nuclear bombs.
Rust never sleeps