Author Topic: Audax on an ebike  (Read 3403 times)

Audax on an ebike
« on: March 20, 2020, 06:52:22 am »
What's the position in relation to doing an audax ride on a road legal ebike?

I quite fancy one or two of the shorter ones, and from what I know from volunteering on audax and sportives, the riding style of audax would suit me much better

There's also the matter of realistic pricing.

If it makes any difference, I would be keen to comply with the ride on the day, but am not the least bit interested in collecting points or being awarded medals.

Nor would I want to do one if I thought it likely I would get called a cheat or otherwise niggled.

I can look after myself, but turning the ride into a punch up is to be avoided.

I recall the matter was raised by one of the candidates when Audax UK was having an election, but I never followed it through.

Thanks in advance.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2020, 07:14:24 am »
Absolutely no problems entering and riding an AUK BP (sub-200) on an ebike. Just tell the organiser that you are on an ebike.

There aren’t any brevets for you to ride at the moment though, which is a bigger issue.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Martin

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2020, 07:31:27 am »
I don't think the ride will be validated either but MBW; although sub 200 rides are not worth any distance points anyway so the only place you would see it would be against your personal record if it was.

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2020, 09:25:10 am »
Once the current world issues settle.


As previously stated, no probs on BP events, although I seem to recall an exception here being AAA events.

Auk should use this time as a golden opportunity to embrace the e-bike world. It is only going to get bigger not smaller, and have an e-bike denotation on their systems.

As stated by Pale Rider, and echoed by every e-bike I've encountered on events - points are not an issue. The vast majority aren't auk's and wonder what the hell is going on.

E-bike riders are not entering events because of current confusion/legislation. For an organisation that is meant to be promoting cycling, there appears to be a 404 issue.

And once you have an "e-bike" notifier available - roll it out to all classifications. Give the impression of an outgoing, all embracing, all welcoming entity, not mog.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 10:22:17 am »
I seem to recall some concern that ebike riders might ride with others, who could draft and thereby complete brevets that might otherwise be beyond them.

(I am neither an org nor an ebiker, so I don't know if this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction.)

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2020, 11:31:02 am »
I seem to recall some concern that ebike riders might ride with others, who could draft and thereby complete brevets that might otherwise be beyond them.

(I am neither an org nor an ebiker, so I don't know if this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction.)


I think drafting is the bigger issue here.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

JennyB

  • Old enough to know better
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2020, 12:22:44 pm »
I seem to recall some concern that ebike riders might ride with others, who could draft and thereby complete brevets that might otherwise be beyond them.

(I am neither an org nor an ebiker, so I don't know if this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction.)


I don%u2019t think it should be a problem. An of-the-shelf ebike is ideal for 100k events,  but to do 200 or more comfortably you need either an extra-large battery or a super-fast charger. I have done 100+ miles on a single charge of a 720 wh battery, but in those circumstances (unless there was a strong headwind) there wouldn%u2019t  be any more value in drafting me than a rider of similar fitness on an unassisted bike. To get that range I can%u2019t  afford to use power on the flat but I tend to climb faster than a struggling rider could stay with.
Jennifer - Walker of hills

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2020, 12:30:52 pm »
I seem to recall some concern that ebike riders might ride with others, who could draft and thereby complete brevets that might otherwise be beyond them.

(I am neither an org nor an ebiker, so I don't know if this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction.)


I think drafting is the bigger issue here.

And it's already (mostly) covered in the rules.  AIUI you're allowed to draft another rider who's on the audax, and you're allowed to draft a random vehicle you happen to encounter on the road.  You're not allowed to draft someone you've arranged to be riding (or driving!) the route who isn't on the audax, because that counts as "outside assistance".

I'm not sure what the difference is between getting your friend with an ebike to enter the ride so you can draft them, and getting your friend who's a stronger cyclist to enter the ride on an unassisted bike so you can draft them, other than in the first case your friend doesn't themselves get validated.  (I also note that the latter is positively encouraged as a way of getting newbies to attempt longer distances.)

See also: Tandems.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2020, 12:37:06 pm »
I seem to recall some concern that ebike riders might ride with others, who could draft and thereby complete brevets that might otherwise be beyond them.

(I am neither an org nor an ebiker, so I don't know if this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction.)


I think drafting is the bigger issue here.

Given that e-bike assistance stops at 25 km/h and that the heavier ones won't achieve that going up any severity of hill, I don't think it could offer much advantage.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2020, 12:39:49 pm »
Depending on your riding style and fitness, I would doubt that most e-bike batteries would last the distance of a 100k. Jan and I have found that in Essex, on our tandem, the battery is good for up to 40 miles or so, more like 30 in Pembrokeshire. Most of the assistance is on the hills. This can be eked out with judicious use of the on-off switch, but we haven't really experimented with that a lot.

OK, you may well be fitter than we are (most people are!) so the battery might not cut in quite so often (they stop helping at about 24kph) giving you a greater range, but the less electricity you use, the less reason there is for you to use an e-bike!

Our first group ride on our Helios tandem was the Andy Allsopp Birthday Bash, which was very hilly in places. It was around Bromley and bits of North Downs Kent, and our overall average was about 10 mph, a good 2 to 3 mph more than we would have expected from our Thorn tandem.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2020, 12:52:18 pm »
My e-bike (which is mostly e-trike) experience is that they make a real difference to my average speed if there's a substantial amount of climbing.  Downhill or on the flat, where I'd be cruising at or above the 25kph limit under my own power, the assistance is mostly a momentary benefit for acceleration at junctions.  I find the usefulness of a motor is proportional to how hilly the ride is, and I'm generally a full-value rider.

As such, the fear of people drafting (road legal) e-bikes seems largely misplaced.  They're just bringing more weaker riders to the back of the field, and that's a Good Thing.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2020, 05:19:20 pm »
This thread is very clam considering its about e.bikes  :demon: must be something more important to get them ranting.

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2020, 05:20:34 pm »
This thread is very clam considering its about e.bikes  :demon: must be something more important to get them ranting.

AUK points for 100km rides done on e-Bikes?
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2020, 05:28:47 pm »
I seem to recall some concern that ebike riders might ride with others, who could draft and thereby complete brevets that might otherwise be beyond them.

(I am neither an org nor an ebiker, so I don't know if this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction.)


I think drafting is the bigger issue here.

And it's already (mostly) covered in the rules.  AIUI you're allowed to draft another rider who's on the audax, and you're allowed to draft a random vehicle you happen to encounter on the road.  You're not allowed to draft someone you've arranged to be riding (or driving!) the route who isn't on the audax, because that counts as "outside assistance".

I'm not sure what the difference is between getting your friend with an ebike to enter the ride so you can draft them, and getting your friend who's a stronger cyclist to enter the ride on an unassisted bike so you can draft them, other than in the first case your friend doesn't themselves get validated.  (I also note that the latter is positively encouraged as a way of getting newbies to attempt longer distances.)

See also: Tandems.
I think you've identified the difference. Doesn't matter in BPs but on a 200+, your strong friend would be validated and doing the audax. If they're not getting validated, they're not really there for auk purposes even if they've entered.

In practice I think it's a non-issue and should be seen as a way of allowing unfit/injured/elderly/disabled/etc riders to do longer events in the company of their friends without upsetting the points tables (but they still get CAEK!)
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2020, 06:45:31 pm »
And just to make it clear, as they don't get validated, it's fine to enter an AAA-rated BP event as well
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2020, 08:42:12 pm »
And with that ivan kills any chance of this thread getting entertaining,  heated etc.


Sorry i am bored and need something to help through these dark times.

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2020, 08:44:07 pm »
And with that ivan kills any chance of this thread getting entertaining,  heated etc.


Sorry i am bored and need something to help through these dark times.

It must be tedious now you're not even delivering Nev's dirty postcards to CCP.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2020, 08:51:29 pm »
And just to make it clear, as they don't get validated, it's fine to enter an AAA-rated BP event as well
AAAs for an ebike? Wow, I thought they all used Li-ion!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2020, 09:03:58 pm »
And with that ivan kills any chance of this thread getting entertaining,  heated etc.


Sorry i am bored and need something to help through these dark times.

Mudguards ?

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2020, 09:24:35 pm »
Maybe there could be a special e bike series, "brevet ready 500" maybe? Cloth badges with built in LEDs.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Martin

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2020, 09:57:36 pm »
And just to make it clear, as they don't get validated, it's fine to enter an AAA-rated BP event as well

(adjusts RA for Cob Lane)

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2020, 09:57:58 pm »
Speaking of drafting, while riding my ebike into a stiff headwind from Goole towards the Humber Bridge I came across an audax in progress.

It wasn't long before there was a short string of riders taking shelter behind me - ebikes are good for plodding remorselessly on into a headwind, which is what I was doing.

Me being the opposite of aero makes my riding combination an even better wind break.

There was friendly chatter with and among my group, but a faster rider who barrelled past us did make a snotty remark about ebikes and drafting as he did so.

The ride for me was part of a York-Humber Bridge-York circuit, which at about 105 miles, is close to my maximum range.


Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2020, 10:23:17 pm »
My e-bike (which is mostly e-trike) experience is that they make a real difference to my average speed if there's a substantial amount of climbing.  Downhill or on the flat, where I'd be cruising at or above the 25kph limit under my own power, the assistance is mostly a momentary benefit for acceleration at junctions.

Agreed. On a flat route, having an e-bike can often mean you are simply pedalling an unusually heavy bike unless you are prepared to ride at a very chilled out pace. Still, when there is a lot of stop-start, it really saves the knees, and a speed profile of a ride will show that less time is spent very low speeds.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2020, 10:57:02 pm »
I wish I could describe 25km/h as a very chilled out pace!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Audax on an ebike
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2020, 04:59:43 am »
I'm not a fast cyclist, but the 25kmh cut out is a nuisance in benign or advantageous conditions.

If it was raised even by only 5 or 10kmh it would largely obviate the desire for derestriction devices.