Author Topic: Safety / close pass jackets ?  (Read 1295 times)

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Safety / close pass jackets ?
« on: May 16, 2020, 08:32:17 am »


IS anyone making a 'social distancing' logo for bike jackets ?
Now the nation knows they're supposed to stay 2metres away, we can exploit this to keep motorists distancing on the road !


I would expect Sustrans or CyclingUK to be on the case since police promotion of the ClosePass problem has been prominent in some cities !
Perhaps they are, if so please say !




see also

https://www.facebook.com/491406574256697/photos/1600070800056930/
https://therunningpost96.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/cyclists-vs-motorists/

LMT

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 12:53:28 pm »
Better off holding defensive cycling classes for the masses.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 01:03:17 pm »
Asking nicely doesn't get you space.  Riding assertively and looking interesting or dangerous gets you space.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 04:54:32 pm »
They'll veer closer while trying to read it at mach2.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 07:50:40 pm »
Quote
Better off holding defensive cycling classes for the masses.
as LMT says

Ian Garrard's study from Bath University agrees :

'This suggests there is little a rider can do, by altering their outfit or donning a high-visibility jacket, to prevent the most dangerous overtakes from happening. Instead, the researchers suggest, if we want to make cyclists safer, it is our roads, or driver behaviour, that need to change.'

https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/cyclists-cannot-stop-drivers-overtaking-dangerously-research-study-suggests/

and I thought that wearing a pony tail under my helmet would fix it for me !

When the Transport Research Laboratory measured bicycle overtaking distances in the same part of the country back in 1979, they found drivers left an average gap of 179 cm when overtaking a cyclist. The average gap in this study was 118 cm, suggesting that the treatment of cyclists might have become worse over the last few decades.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 08:02:54 pm »
Yeah, if you want to alter driver behaviour you're going to have to be more weird or dangerous than that.

Wobbling, offensive weapons, unusual bikes, loads that look like they might damage a car (either through pointyness or precariousness), that sort of thing.  Simply dressing as a different type of BloodyCyclist isn't likely to change anything more than your perceived speed.  You need to make them care, either by making them want to get a better look[1] at you, or by making them want to stay well away from you.  They've already done the risk assessment that prioritises their convenience over your safety, so if you want to influence their behaviour you need to give them a different priority.

IME the main difference visible long hair makes is to the gendered nature of the abuse from shouty men in passing cars.


[1] As a recumbent rider I can confidently state that the ones who are videoing you with a smartphone aren't the ones passing dangerously close.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 08:03:31 pm »
When the Transport Research Laboratory measured bicycle overtaking distances in the same part of the country back in 1979, they found drivers left an average gap of 179 cm when overtaking a cyclist. The average gap in this study was 118 cm, suggesting that the treatment of cyclists might have become worse over the last few decades.

What's the change in average car width over the same period?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2020, 09:12:02 pm »
The chap in Bath who did the blonde wig passing distance study also came to the conclusion somewhere along the line that there was a fixed proportion of drivers who, no matter what tactic adopted by a cyclist, always passed too close.
Rust never sleeps

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 09:59:14 pm »
That's him mentioned above: Dr Ian Garrard.

Sorry, wrong! The bloke at Bath who did the wig experiment was Ian Walker.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 01:49:50 pm »
I thought the only approach proven to reduce close passes was to look like the police.

Drivers know how much space they should give, but they don't care if there is no risk of prosecution.
   Eddington  87 miles

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 01:58:29 pm »
I've found I get more space if I put in a little wobble when they're more than a few seconds behind (any closer and there's little point).

Doesn't work with everyone though, and if someone isn't actually looking at the road (because they're looking at their phone/satnav/radio/kids/etc) then that's of no use at all.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2020, 02:23:49 pm »
I thought the only approach proven to reduce close passes was to look like the police.

Correct.  Walker repeated his study with a rather better one and found that this was the case.

Quote
Drivers know how much space they should give, but they don't care if there is no risk of prosecution.
Also correct.  In the second study, Walker found that a POLITE vest had no significant effect, but an actual police vest did.  The drivers could see him and his experimental subjects well enough to tell the difference between a real and a fake police uniform, and chose their passing distance accordingly.

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2020, 02:40:51 pm »
In summary, some drivers don't give a shit / are too ignorant to understand how a close pass might be unsettling for a cyclist.
Rust never sleeps

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 05:48:53 pm »
I once discovered that a huge bouquet of flowers peering out of the off side panier did the trick. (It was our wedding anniversary, or something).
The biggest leek in the world, mounted sideways through my barley flap, was almost as effective. (It wasn't our wedding anniversary).
Quote from: Kim
And remember that friends who organise things on Facebook aren't proper friends anyway.

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2020, 09:54:02 pm »
I always used to have a standard blinky rear led light running when cycling in daylight, but have recently started using a Spanninga Elips pannier mounted light that only has a "steady" mode.  It may be my imagination but I swear that I've noticed more respectful overtaking since I've been using this light.  Maybe its because it helps to identify the rider as a road user rather than just another "bloody cyclist"?
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

handcyclist

  • watch for my signal
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2020, 10:19:16 pm »


3 feet is too close for my liking
Doubt is is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2020, 06:50:29 am »

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2020, 08:00:33 am »
And it's 3' the wrong way too.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2020, 08:56:57 am »
With the mentality some of the road using idiots display I wonder whether this would encourage an “ I can get much closer than that, no problem” mentality

A

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 10:27:55 am »
With the mentality some of the road using idiots display I wonder whether this would encourage an “ I can get much closer than that, no problem” mentality
A
From the Honest John website, here's a recent question (14 May) asking how close one can
overtake a cyclist on the road:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/144937/how-closely-can-i-overtake-a-cyclist-in-the-road-


ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2020, 11:19:56 am »
Close passing is, I think, is sometimes genuine ignorance from people who drive everywhere and have no comprehension of what it feels like. If you've ever walked down a narrow road with no pavement, you'll be familiar with the same behaviour*.

Other times, it's just a case of simply  not caring. They want to get ahead and they if they can squeeze past they will. It's viewed as a right. And as no one will tell them otherwise, well, why not.

In combination, well, that's passing behaviour. It's never that they can't see you or need to be told. It's like the people who ride around after dark lit up like Vegas. Trust me, it's not that people couldn't see you, they can see a bike with a single decent light well enough, it's that for whatever reason they've constructed they simply don't care or aren't looking.

*there are three types of country lane pass in my experience: the wide and slow, the wide but without slowing, and the don't care. The latter seem to be winning out these days.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2020, 11:39:02 am »
I suspect that quite a large number of close passes are not because of ignorance or carelessness at all but from people who actually want to frighten you.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2020, 11:47:57 am »
Yes, there's that too. Teaching someone a lesson because they think the cyclist (or walker) shouldn't be there.

There's the element of facilitated bullying, they can do this because they're in a big powerful car and they know there's no one to stop them.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2020, 11:55:34 am »
Yes.  The trouble is how to deal with it.  I suspect that the best way is to ignore it and not give them the satisfaction of knowing that they upset you.  But too often instinct takes over and I give mouth then instantly remember, "Hang on he/she's got two tons of metal and I've only got a buch of flowers or a leek".  As people have said, it's really difficult to change this behaviour, so I guess steeling yourself not to react is the safest line - but it's hard!

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2020, 12:24:09 pm »
Hmmmm. I think the balance between ignorant and vindictive weighs far more heavily to ignorant, so an outburst might conceivably make the ignorant realise they messed up. I think that outweighs any downside to hurling abuse at any vindictive bastards.
Rust never sleeps