Author Topic: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?  (Read 563 times)

Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
    • Reading Cycling Club
Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« on: May 16, 2020, 07:56:06 pm »
Hi,

I may have spent too long in lockdown but my mind has turned to a discussion we had in out about club run insurance. None of us could come up with any case where it had been claimed on or a situation where it might be. Could someone who has insight into this please explain why we need to buy club run insurance?

BB
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 08:18:37 pm »
I've had a rider claim on my CTC cover during a club-run (n.b. MY insurance, not the CLUB's, but the theory is that if I'd joined the Foreign Legion to avoid the claim, a claim might have been made against the ride-leader. Or the club)

Does that help??
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 08:40:44 pm »
Slightly off topic but I think I read that the British cycling 3rd party insurance excludes claims by one rider against another in an event.

Edit: if both are bc members

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 08:45:03 pm »
Slightly off topic but I think I read that the British cycling 3rd party insurance excludes claims by one rider against another in an event.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

True. Otherwise of course riders would try to use it to get a new bike every time they crashed.

Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 09:05:32 pm »
Scenario - inexperienced rider has an accident on a busy road that the club run went down and believes the organiser was negligent in not assessing their ability to ride safely.
Would you want to deal with that, or hand it over to your insurers? I went on a CTC Cycling UK Ride Leader Workshop a few years ago and a fair chunk of the day was spent discussing liability and insurance.  It seems their insurers don't often need to pay out or even go to court, but spend some time each year explaining to complainants why the club wasn't negligent. So to an extent you're paying for someone to deal with it in a legal way, as much as cover any settlement. The lack of claims will be why it's so cheap, you can affiliate a club to CUK for less than £100 a year and I doubt a third of that is for insurance, that doesn't cover racing and I don't know how much that would be. 
it's one of those things that you'll probably never need, like insuring your house doesn't burn down, the likelihood small but the consequences huge.

Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
    • Reading Cycling Club
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 03:08:10 pm »
Scenario - inexperienced rider has an accident on a busy road that the club run went down and believes the organiser was negligent in not assessing their ability to ride safely.
Would you want to deal with that, or hand it over to your insurers? I went on a CTC Cycling UK Ride Leader Workshop a few years ago and a fair chunk of the day was spent discussing liability and insurance.  It seems their insurers don't often need to pay out or even go to court, but spend some time each year explaining to complainants why the club wasn't negligent. So to an extent you're paying for someone to deal with it in a legal way, as much as cover any settlement. The lack of claims will be why it's so cheap, you can affiliate a club to CUK for less than £100 a year and I doubt a third of that is for insurance, that doesn't cover racing and I don't know how much that would be. 
it's one of those things that you'll probably never need, like insuring your house doesn't burn down, the likelihood small but the consequences huge.
So the fact you are an adult joining in an activity that is clearly advertised as unsupported road riding means that you would not have known what to expect? I suppose I can sort of see the point, but all this leaves me wondering if adults are supposed to make their own decisions or not.

Could you claim for psychological damage after been dropped on a hill. "I was overwhelmed by a sense of uselessness after been dropped and this crept into all aspects of my life. I will sue the club for mental damage  :thumbsup:"

BB
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 03:37:04 pm »
So the fact you are an adult joining in an activity that is clearly advertised as unsupported road riding means that you would not have known what to expect? I suppose I can sort of see the point, but all this leaves me wondering if adults are supposed to make their own decisions or not.
I don't disagree, I was giving an example of what a club might need to deal with rather than an example of what I thought to be a reasonable claim. 
Also, such things are not always in the hands of the individuals.  There was a case in Scotland some years ago where a rider sustained life changing injuries when they were bought down by another in the group.  The headline was about one rider suing another, yet they were doing so at the insistence of their own insurer who wouldn't settle this large claim unless they did. The court came to the sensible decision that they'd shared the risk and the claim failed.  Still it's not the sort of thing any of us would want to deal with, less so without our own insurers legal team covering it. 

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 05:36:26 pm »
So the fact you are an adult joining in an activity that is clearly advertised as unsupported road riding means that you would not have known what to expect? I suppose I can sort of see the point, but all this leaves me wondering if adults are supposed to make their own decisions or not.
I don't disagree, I was giving an example of what a club might need to deal with rather than an example of what I thought to be a reasonable claim. 
Also, such things are not always in the hands of the individuals.  There was a case in Scotland some years ago where a rider sustained life changing injuries when they were bought down by another in the group.  The headline was about one rider suing another, yet they were doing so at the insistence of their own insurer who wouldn't settle this large claim unless they did. The court came to the sensible decision that they'd shared the risk and the claim failed.  Still it's not the sort of thing any of us would want to deal with, less so without our own insurers legal team covering it.
Totally agree Paul.
(the claimant in my case was riding like an idiot, but I didn't care, as I was insured! Saved me having a long drawn-out argument with them. Small price for an easy life :) )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 05:39:14 pm »
With insurance often comes a magic hat clause.   Beware.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 05:42:51 pm »
Harrison Vs West of Scotland Kart club and RACMSA may have some answers for you.

One of the selling points for mountaineering clubs etc having MCofS or BMC insurance is to avoid the otherwise necessary costs of being a Limited company to protect members from litigious non-members suing the club (And therefore them).


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 05:54:11 pm »
With insurance often comes a magic hat clause.   Beware.
But not with CUK.  :thumbsup:

(BC probably doesn't either, but there are myriad levels, and I wouldn't put anything past them frankly ...)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 10:08:54 pm »
Scenario - inexperienced rider has an accident on a busy road that the club run went down and believes the organiser was negligent in not assessing their ability to ride safely.
Would you want to deal with that, or hand it over to your insurers? I went on a CTC Cycling UK Ride Leader Workshop a few years ago and a fair chunk of the day was spent discussing liability and insurance.  It seems their insurers don't often need to pay out or even go to court, but spend some time each year explaining to complainants why the club wasn't negligent. So to an extent you're paying for someone to deal with it in a legal way, as much as cover any settlement. The lack of claims will be why it's so cheap, you can affiliate a club to CUK for less than £100 a year and I doubt a third of that is for insurance, that doesn't cover racing and I don't know how much that would be. 
it's one of those things that you'll probably never need, like insuring your house doesn't burn down, the likelihood small but the consequences huge.
So the fact you are an adult joining in an activity that is clearly advertised as unsupported road riding means that you would not have known what to expect? I suppose I can sort of see the point, but all this leaves me wondering if adults are supposed to make their own decisions or not.

Could you claim for psychological damage after been dropped on a hill. "I was overwhelmed by a sense of uselessness after been dropped and this crept into all aspects of my life. I will sue the club for mental damage  :thumbsup:"

BB

That's happened to me often enough that if you could I would be able to retire on the proceeds.
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 170 (metric) 520 (furlongs)  112 (nautical miles)

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: Cycling Club Insurance - What is it for?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2020, 10:06:18 am »
Scenario - inexperienced rider has an accident on a busy road that the club run went down and believes the organiser was negligent in not assessing their ability to ride safely.
Would you want to deal with that, or hand it over to your insurers? I went on a CTC Cycling UK Ride Leader Workshop a few years ago and a fair chunk of the day was spent discussing liability and insurance.  It seems their insurers don't often need to pay out or even go to court, but spend some time each year explaining to complainants why the club wasn't negligent. So to an extent you're paying for someone to deal with it in a legal way, as much as cover any settlement. The lack of claims will be why it's so cheap, you can affiliate a club to CUK for less than £100 a year and I doubt a third of that is for insurance, that doesn't cover racing and I don't know how much that would be. 
it's one of those things that you'll probably never need, like insuring your house doesn't burn down, the likelihood small but the consequences huge.
So the fact you are an adult joining in an activity that is clearly advertised as unsupported road riding means that you would not have known what to expect? I suppose I can sort of see the point, but all this leaves me wondering if adults are supposed to make their own decisions or not.

Could you claim for psychological damage after been dropped on a hill. "I was overwhelmed by a sense of uselessness after been dropped and this crept into all aspects of my life. I will sue the club for mental damage  :thumbsup:"

BB

That is (in part) the point. Anyone can sue anyone else for anything. (I could sue you because I don't like the way you look at me). The fact a case has little chance doesn't eliminate the stress or cost of being sued.