Author Topic: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.  (Read 971 times)

Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« on: June 24, 2020, 09:58:09 pm »
Some of these have been in place for a while, and more might be expected, so what are the experiences of them so far? Is it likely that any of them will actually result in an increase in utility cycling by people who would have previously made the same journeys by car?

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2020, 11:20:42 am »
I checked out one the other day in Southampton, they are no good for a trike, the first part was only 28 inches wide, so couldn't use it. Wheel to wheel I need 32 inches plus.
The second part was a bit wider, but every 60 meters they put a square shaped bollard reducing the width again......Ah I took the next left and went home.


jiberjaber

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Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2020, 12:45:35 pm »
It seems to be a bit of a waste of money here in Chelmsford. A couple of days after it was introduced I came through to take a look and the experience was dire, no decent signage, barriers tapered in to the kerb - very poor.  They have made some changes (you are no longer pushed in to the kerb in *most* but not all places and they have opened up the entry points a bit more but no signage - it's as though the county council has no road safety audit capability (which I know they do)!

Video here:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1270486782388457472
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2020, 12:50:56 pm »
Some ok ones in London, and big plans for more, though as time goes on people are drifting back towards the bus and tube and it may be too little too late.

There's also quite a few places where they've taken existing painted gutter lanes and put in proper wands, which apparently couldn't be done without a pandemic.

I checked out one the other day in Southampton, they are no good for a trike, the first part was only 28 inches wide, so couldn't use it. Wheel to wheel I need 32 inches plus.

Talk to your councillors or your local campaign group.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 12:54:18 pm »
Still waiting for one to pop up in Birmingham...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Mr Larrington

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Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2020, 01:08:23 pm »
We've got pop-up pavements outside the shops further up Larrington Towers Road, to prevent the Poor of the Parish from being crushed by the wheels of industry a W15 bus while they queueueueueueue.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2020, 01:20:33 pm »
Yeah, we've got some of those.  They're even seeing a little use now that the shops they're in front of have opened.  But the psychological power of the kerb is strong, and people only seem to use them for queueueueuing, rather than passing each other with a decent amount of space.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

fd3

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2020, 01:44:48 pm »
Where would we want one in Brum?  Have you used the consultation thingy to ask for one in a particular point? 
I got all gung-ho about this this and contacted my councillor, but she totally annihilated me by asking me where I would want one.
... ummm .... errr .... I ride on the street?
[/I could be wrong]

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2020, 01:58:26 pm »
I can think of several places here in Bristol which need pavement widening, and needed it anyway before Covid, but it's harder to think of specific sites for cycle lanes.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2020, 02:15:09 pm »
Where would we want one in Brum?  Have you used the consultation thingy to ask for one in a particular point? 
I got all gung-ho about this this and contacted my councillor, but she totally annihilated me by asking me where I would want one.
... ummm .... errr .... I ride on the street?

A5127 from the city centre to Sutton Coldfield is the one that immediately springs to mind.  Strategic route, fairly horrid to cycle, no sensible alternatives.
Hagley Road.  Pershore Road.  Selly Oak High Street (for which plans have been in the pipeline since before the bypass was built).
A41 and/or Stratford Road maybe?

Probably some stuff around the centre of town.... Moor Street?  Digbeth?

I dunno.  I generally ride on the road, too.  But I'm a fit cyclist who manages her fear of cars.  There's no shortage of places where I'd happily use segregated alternatives if they were decent.  (I regularly use the new A38 cycleway; it's marginally slower than riding in the carriageway, faster at peak times, and generally less stressful.  I avoid shared-use bollocks, unless it's a useful shortcut or something.)

"Look for where the BOSists are pavement cycling and build them there." is probably a good heuristic, if vague.

https://www.widenmypath.com/birmingham/ seems to be a decent project to collect grassroots suggestions.  I've added a few comments there, though mostly in the classes of "This cycle facility needs fixing because..." and "Filtered permeability would be good here."
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2020, 02:48:55 pm »
Numbnuts' photo looks to me like a cordoned off roadworks, complete with a keep right sign which I would obey.

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2020, 03:05:45 pm »
https://www.widenmypath.com
I looked at my small town on that site and immediately thought "not in my name".  One point is a perfectly wide 2 lane A road (30 limit) with parking bays along one side.  No problem - but apparently there is a need to take out the parking bays and put in a cycle lane.  Thing is, this is half way up a 600ft climb so there do not tend to be utility cyclists around.  Another one- a perfectly reasonable rural B road which I use regularly (40 limit mostly) apparently needs a cycle lane.   Most of the local ones I look at must be posted by some moaning minnies - we have a couple of London campaigning escapees who are prime suspects I think.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2020, 03:35:35 pm »
https://www.widenmypath.com
I looked at my small town on that site and immediately thought "not in my name".  One point is a perfectly wide 2 lane A road (30 limit) with parking bays along one side.  No problem

For us.

Quote
Thing is, this is half way up a 600ft climb so there do not tend to be utility cyclists around.

Or it's uphill in the door zone on a Scary Main Road™

TBH, sounds like a reasonable idea to me.  Roads can be better used than for storing cars, and uphill means greater speed differential, which is what makes cycling aroud cars unpleasant.

My main concern is that where infrastructure is built, it's of a quality that's actually worth using.  Otherwise the few of us who still cycle would usually be better off without it.

I've commented on a magic paint cycle lane on a similar road to request that either it be widened and upgraded to full segregation, or removed entirely.  As it stands, it just makes the drivers pass you closer (while you try to avoid the leaf chutney).
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2020, 03:39:02 pm »
Still waiting for one to pop up in Birmingham...
\

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Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2020, 02:18:18 pm »
the few of us who still cycle
Historically few or recently few? Numbers of cyclists in the New Old Normal are significantly down from the Temporary Normal but still up on the Old Normal. There's been a change in the demographic though. The families and the unaccompanied kids are mostly gone but some of the mandated exercisers are still at it and of course there are those who are scared of buses. I expect most of this latter group will buy old cars in the winter though, especially if a scrappage scheme releases currently "first owner" cars onto the second-hand market.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2020, 02:43:01 pm »
<snip> especially if a scrappage scheme releases currently "first owner" cars onto the second-hand market.
That's not generally how they work - the last one you had to trade in a car that was >10yo, with MOT, that you had owned (or been registered keeper) for > 1 year. The cars that were traded in were not allowed back on the roads (there were some really nice classics in that group last time :( ). The only thing a scrappage scheme will do is replace existing cars with newer ones, and the secondhand market will have demand and supply reduced.

Not seen any pop-up cycle lanes in Oxford.  Maybe there are some and I've not been on those roads.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2020, 03:06:39 pm »
Okay, I thought it was more like a general trade in scheme with the cars being taken as px for new ones then sold on.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2020, 05:31:48 pm »
Apparently next month Croydon is getting a short stretch of 'lightly segregated' cycle path along London Road, to the hospital.

My biggest issue with London Road is the air quality; I only use it when I'm tired of arguing with drivers in the parallel backstreets who think I should throw myself into parked cars to let them pass. Not sure how much use it's going to be in encouraging new cyclists when the rest of Croydon is so terrifying but it's a start I suppose.

What Croydon did move surprisingly quickly on was putting planters down on a handful of residential streets to filter them. One of those is up a hill, and on my route to Beckenham, so it's quite nice to pootle up that in a low gear without a car breathing down my neck.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
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Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2020, 06:38:10 pm »
Hmm, London Road is not for the faint-of-heart (my quickest route home from the mothership, when I went to the mothership of course) was all the way down the A23 from Blackfriars to Brixton to Streatham to Norbury to Thorton Heath Pond to Croydon to Purley. And breath, or don't. The traffic is mostly awful and gets a lot worse in Wild West Croydon, but it's predictably awful. Sometimes I come via Mitcham Common but that involves the Lombardy Circus of Death and some fairly unpleasant roads (the shared pavement across the Common simply abandons you on the road, I presume where Sutton becomes Croydon).

There's no good route just a poorly joined-up set of least bad options. Croydon council spent a small fortune putting in parking bays by the shops (also on Brighton Road) that seem entirely used for delivery vans.

It would be nice to see Croydon do anything, they've generally held to a deep-seated antipathy to cycling.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2020, 07:27:42 pm »
Trafford closed down a pop up cycle lane already because of traffic. One driver complained about 2 miles taking an hour. There’s no helping some people. :facepalm:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/council-removes-pop-up-cycle-lane-after-two-days-because-drivers-complained-about-traffic-458499

Socks

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Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2020, 07:44:28 pm »
County Durham appear to be doing bugger all.  Although they have published a fancy 'Cycling and Walking Delivery Plan'.  For the next two or three years it involves assessing the state of current provision and potential demand.  Then, I assume, actually making some improvements in about four to ten years time.  By which time we'll be f*****d anyway.

To be fair, they have faced ten years of some of the biggest funding cuts in England.  And about 95% of their spending choices are dictated by someone in an office in London, thanks to the most centralised political system in Europe.

Very frustrating when there is so much potential in the County (for example, joining up former mineral railways which are now multi-user routes, with new urban cycle links, using active travel to counteract health and poverty issues).

fd3

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2020, 12:17:48 am »
A5127 from the city centre to Sutton Coldfield is the one that immediately springs to mind.  Strategic route, fairly horrid to cycle, no sensible alternatives.
Hagley Road.  Pershore Road.  Selly Oak High Street (for which plans have been in the pipeline since before the bypass was built).
A41 and/or Stratford Road maybe?
Extending the blue route to SC would make sense, guess an pop up would be a trial to see if it's worth it.
Agree with Hagley road, except that it's Hagley road and I can't think of a good reason to venture that way.  Selly Oak doesn't need a pop up it needs bollards and pedestrianising.  Stratford Rd is legit, they have Jyotis.
[/I could be wrong]

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2020, 04:40:12 pm »
Oh what an incredible surprise, pedestrianisation plans "delayed": https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink/my-heart-sank-pub-on-4268420
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2020, 07:38:30 pm »
I’m not surprised that some cyclists don’t like them, there seems to be no shortage of enthusiasts that won’t use any cycling facilities. The most important question is whether or not they are sufficiently good enough to encourage people who wouldn’t otherwise have cycled to go by bike for at least some of their journeys. That will require networks that aren’t broken up at crucial big and scary junctions. I can see that being the biggest limiting factor in terms of persuading people that their journeys are viable by bike.

It is something that highwaymen have been spectacularly bad at forever, or else have sought to make cycling as inconvenient as possible whenever presented with an opportunity. I have seen quite a few junctions completed in the last 4 or 5 years that would need cyclists to use 4 or 5 sets of pedestrian crossings even to go straight over, whilst all traffic on the road gets through the junctions in one go.

Re: Pop-up cycle lanes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2020, 01:02:53 am »
That will require networks that aren’t broken up at crucial big and scary junctions.

This is the biggest issue with the permanent cycle infra between Leeds and Bradford, it's acceptable for long stretches, even good at some points but it's confusing and somewhat dangerous at some points when it reaches huge motorway junctions and does the classic "END" when it reaches bits of road where it's too narrow or otherwise inconvenient for it to continue, which is fine for an experienced cyclist but might be off putting for someone using it for the first time.

I'm not sure how much use it gets, I used it for the second time on Saturday in less than ideal weather conditions.