Author Topic: Snake oil  (Read 1770 times)

Snake oil
« on: June 26, 2020, 08:52:13 pm »
A thread for the best snake oil you find.

To start with audio grade network switches. Never mind the complete lack of understanding of how ethernet works consider that even better this guy recommends only mounting your switch on HiFi vibration isolation stands:

https://youtu.be/fQGrkavDXeE

Apparently you can hear the difference.

I must remember when I next do a low level design and bill of materials for a datacentre to include thirty HiFi isolation racks. I mean I wouldn't want to just rack those switches in normal datacentre racks imagine all the corrupted packets if I did that! As a datacentre network specialist I must hang my head in shame that I have missed this essential step in good data transmission for the last thirty years.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 09:03:24 pm »
Don't forget to use cable lifters for all of your interconnects.... https://www.harrowaudiohifi.co.uk/en/audioquest-fog-lifters
Not fast & rarely furious

tweeting occasional in(s)anities as andrewxclark

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 09:20:41 pm »

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 09:25:19 pm »
https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/reverse-engineering-a-5g-bioshield/
Quote
Klotho Formula uses a "proprietary procedure that leads to relativistic time dilation and biological quantum entanglement at the DNA level".
Known on this forum as "Is it Thursday?"
 ;D
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2020, 09:28:52 pm »
Ooh the guy on the video I linked has just replied to my "Snake Oil" comment on YouTube.

I bet no matter what I say even though I have 30+ years in networking his ears still know better.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2020, 09:52:23 pm »
Ooh the guy on the video I linked has just replied to my "Snake Oil" comment on YouTube.

I bet no matter what I say even though I have 30+ years in networking his ears still know better.
But you only know about data bits and not audio bits. You have to handle audio bits with utmost care.
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2020, 10:04:42 pm »
The best ones I have seen so far on the networking front are new "clocking circuits" to stop clock slip on packets transferred via Ethernet.

Amazing. Ethernet is actually clocked but the standard switch clocks are fine. If the packets weren't clocked correctly you would get Ethernet errors. The actual data packets aren't cocked at all with streaming. Its a file and its buffered in whatever software is receiving it. Its all complete guff.

One of my customers is a university that deals with terabyte downloads of raw data from the Large Hadron Collider. They never complain about their £2 Ethernet cables and standard switches corrupting the data :)
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2020, 10:11:07 pm »
you just haven't done  enough galvanic isolation, don't you know anything?

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2020, 10:17:34 pm »
But galvanic corrosion is a good source of free energy so it’s sustainable and a bit of resending is a small price to pay for that.
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2020, 10:22:24 pm »
I see the bods in the OP can also flog you an RN 45 female female connector as they use non standard connectors. A simpler, but less lucrative, approach would be to fit an RJ45 socket to their gadget, but where's the bullshit in that?
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2020, 11:57:28 pm »
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2020, 12:57:48 am »
Oil?

Impressive. They'll even set fire to them for you for £100...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2020, 05:21:28 am »
Oil?

Impressive. They'll even set fire to them for you for £100...

J

Very impressive, and getting the electricity to go faster once it's worked out where to go is downright clever. Although to be fair, the specifications do describe it properly.

Quote
...
bananas

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2020, 07:13:30 am »
The best ones I have seen so far on the networking front are new "clocking circuits" to stop clock slip on packets transferred via Ethernet.

Amazing. Ethernet is actually clocked but the standard switch clocks are fine. If the packets weren't clocked correctly you would get Ethernet errors. The actual data packets aren't cocked at all with streaming. Its a file and its buffered in whatever software is receiving it. Its all complete guff.

One of my customers is a university that deals with terabyte downloads of raw data from the Large Hadron Collider. They never complain about their £2 Ethernet cables and standard switches corrupting the data :)
Standard switches are fine for non time critical data. Time critical data such unbuffered audio and even more so video probably requires special switches that support IEEE 802.1BA. Quackery is often based loosely on reality.

Incidentally LHC produces a lot of data - each of the 4 main detectors producing 1 gb/s but nothing compared to tv production - a single camera produces uncompressed UHD at 12 gb/s.


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Re: Snake oil
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2020, 07:47:24 am »
The best ones I have seen so far on the networking front are new "clocking circuits" to stop clock slip on packets transferred via Ethernet.

Amazing. Ethernet is actually clocked but the standard switch clocks are fine. If the packets weren't clocked correctly you would get Ethernet errors. The actual data packets aren't cocked at all with streaming. Its a file and its buffered in whatever software is receiving it. Its all complete guff.

One of my customers is a university that deals with terabyte downloads of raw data from the Large Hadron Collider. They never complain about their £2 Ethernet cables and standard switches corrupting the data :)
Standard switches are fine for non time critical data. Time critical data such unbuffered audio and even more so video probably requires special switches that support IEEE 802.1BA. Quackery is often based loosely on reality.

Indeed. Also switches for stock trading need accurate clocking, we don't play in that field. Streaming audio though is just file transfer. You could theoretically do it with a post it pads and someone walking them between the sender and receiver and typing the data in at each end and it would still sound perfect. Would be a long time between pressing play and the music starting and you would need a really big buffer on the receiving end though :)
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2020, 07:58:46 am »
Did you consider the option to tastefully gift-wrap every packet?
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2020, 08:05:35 am »
The best ones I have seen so far on the networking front are new "clocking circuits" to stop clock slip on packets transferred via Ethernet.

Amazing. Ethernet is actually clocked but the standard switch clocks are fine. If the packets weren't clocked correctly you would get Ethernet errors. The actual data packets aren't cocked at all with streaming. Its a file and its buffered in whatever software is receiving it. Its all complete guff.

One of my customers is a university that deals with terabyte downloads of raw data from the Large Hadron Collider. They never complain about their £2 Ethernet cables and standard switches corrupting the data :)
Standard switches are fine for non time critical data. Time critical data such unbuffered audio and even more so video probably requires special switches that support IEEE 802.1BA. Quackery is often based loosely on reality.

Indeed. Also switches for stock trading need accurate clocking, we don't play in that field. Streaming audio though is just file transfer. You could theoretically do it with a post it pads and someone walking them between the sender and receiver and typing the data in at each end and it would still sound perfect. Would be a long time between pressing play and the music starting and you would need a really big buffer on the receiving end though :)
I think the issue is getting it to play in sync on several speakers that are networked together.


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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2020, 11:38:09 am »
I think the issue is getting it to play in sync on several speakers that are networked together.

That's surely just an exercise in clock synchronisation?  Buffer the data, and tell each player when to start...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Snake oil
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2020, 12:05:43 pm »
I think the issue is getting it to play in sync on several speakers that are networked together.

That's surely just an exercise in clock synchronisation?  Buffer the data, and tell each player when to start...
As I said the earlier the quackery for home hi-fi systems has a loose basis in reality. The buffer and wait may work ok for home hifi but is going to struggle in a professional recording and broadcast environment if you throw in items that do not support buffering for example a human singing and playing an instrument. Switches that support the ieee802.1ba can prioritise and reserve bandwidth for time critical stuff. A “hifi specific” router with a coax socket on the back for “master timer control” is almost certainly bogus but there is a hint of reality.

Edit: I particularly liked the “our timing signal is a pure sine wave rather than the square wave other devices use”

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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2020, 12:22:24 pm »
Ah yes, got to love the way that hi-fi snake oilers latch onto ideas from the pro audio world: Selectively, and with frequent point-missing.

I'm particularly fond of the way they endlessly refine the RCA connector, rather than using something that's actually good in the first place.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2020, 12:33:43 pm »
HDMI cables either work or they don't.  A £3 one from the Bay of Thieves is as good as the £20 one you'll find cheapest in many TV shops, or a "premium" £50 one.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2020, 01:03:59 pm »
HDMI cables either work or they don't.  A £3 one from the Bay of Thieves is as good as the £20 one you'll find cheapest in many TV shops, or a "premium" £50 one.

But you have to pay extra to get HDMI to Gardena...



J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2020, 02:50:41 pm »
Quote from: pcolbeck
The actual data packets aren't cocked at all ...
See, there's yer problem.  Yer packets are all goin' orf at arf cock, mate. You'll get no end of data corruption with that. Cor, it's a bleedin' wonder yer gettin' any signal at all.  What yew need is ....   :)
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Re: Snake oil
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2020, 06:27:35 pm »
Advertised in today's Guardian: on the green and ethical adverts page alongside various eco soaps and clothing which presumably can be relied on to supply functional products, there's the Omnia Radiation Balancer.

Radiation from wireless devices we use all day can be harmonised and brought back into balance

How?

Buy some stickers to put on all your devices Even your Fridge!

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Snake oil
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2020, 08:15:55 pm »
Nothing wrong with stickers on your fridge.  Ours has several, though they're things like "Bollocks to Brexit" "Cyclists stay awesome" and "OUT OF CHEESE ERROR ?REDO FROM START" rather than anything WiFi related: Being sensible people, we ran wired Ethernet to the fridge.  Higher bandwidth, and it stops the milk from curdling.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...