Author Topic: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles  (Read 1971 times)

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2020, 02:23:28 pm »
Drill Pipe is <blah blah>
I didn't know you were a driller, I've got no-end of questions I could ask next time we can manage to meet for a beer.  Drilling always seemed like one of those black arts to me.

I'm not; my arms are not long enough to allow my knuckles to drag on the ground :-)

But my working life was at the pointy end of the oil drilling business.
After they drilled the 'ole, we would run sophisticated instruments down the hole to make geological and petrophysical measurements on the exposed rocks before they ran the steel casing and cemented it in place.

We are measuring Porosity using a variety of methods to determine the quantity of fluid in place, and Resistivity to determine if the fluid is water or hydrocarbon.
These measurements can't really be made through the steel casing.

So you get to be well acquainted with the whole drilling process and the terminology on the drill floor.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2020, 07:06:01 pm »
It is a plastic tub, and the t piece is is the right angles are 16mm, and the straight on is 12mm.  This issue is that the 16mm joint has a 14mm pipe and then solder filling the gap.  So heat IMO is not an option as I'm not sure what would happen.

Maybe push fit.

Have you considered these joints?

https://www.bricodepot.fr/varennes-vauzelles/te-pour-tube-cuivre-ou-per--14-mm-avec-sortie-femelle-15x21-mm/prod35743/

They are not cheap, but with the proper combination of press fit and threaded joints, you can join together copper pipes of any diameter with no heat and a minimum of tools. All you need is a clean cut with an angle grinder, then file the burr and clean up everything with steel wool before inserting the joints.

A

Yes, was looking at those from Bricodepot.  At the moment it is non my house, not my problem.


SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2020, 07:07:32 pm »
I'm not a driller, but my understanding is that drill pipe is specified on OD, in order to maintain a specific clearance between casing or open hole sections and the pipe.

Drill Pipe is usually expressed as a nominal OD, a weight ( lb/ft usually ), and a Grade of material.
The pin and box connections at each end have a larger OD to accommodate the threads. This is called 'External Upset'.
The ID remains approximately constant, called IF ( Internally Flush ).

So we might talk about "4-1\2 IF 20lb X-95".

The External Upset means that the drill string is only in contact with the borehole wall for the short length of the couplings, not the entire length of the string. This reduces the chances of the drill string becoming differentially stuck by mudcake buildup as the mud invades permeable formation under hydrostatic pressure.

I didn't know you were a driller, I've got no-end of questions I could ask next time we can manage to meet for a beer.  Drilling always seemed like one of those black arts to me.
As a technomancer of the control systems that keep thing from going fooom![1] that is a conversation I would be very interested sit beside developing tennis watchers neck.

There's a proper, old skool, honest to god, cast-iron and copper-bottomed, reliable until just after the heat death of the universe TMR safety system 10' from me right now.  Wot I helped design. One of the real deal gang of three from back when  men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri and safety systems were UTTERLY INDEPENDANT of your DCS.
2020 targets: None
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2020, 03:35:30 pm »
It is a plastic tub, and the t piece is is the right angles are 16mm, and the straight on is 12mm.  This issue is that the 16mm joint has a 14mm pipe and then solder filling the gap.  So heat IMO is not an option as I'm not sure what would happen.

Maybe push fit.

Have you considered these joints?

https://www.bricodepot.fr/varennes-vauzelles/te-pour-tube-cuivre-ou-per--14-mm-avec-sortie-femelle-15x21-mm/prod35743/

They are not cheap, but with the proper combination of press fit and threaded joints, you can join together copper pipes of any diameter with no heat and a minimum of tools. All you need is a clean cut with an angle grinder, then file the burr and clean up everything with steel wool before inserting the joints.

A

Yes, was looking at those from Bricodepot.  At the moment it is non my house, not my problem.

Ah it is now not my house, but my problem....

Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2020, 03:57:54 pm »
Not your house but your problem. So it's your son's/daughter's house I guess?

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2020, 10:06:35 pm »
Not your house but your problem. So it's your son's/daughter's house I guess?

GF house, not mine.  No financial interest for me, just the headache.

At the mo I'm trying to do the work on the cheap, by not removing the pink plastic bath and associated bath panel tilling replacing the bath and replacing all the poorly soldered joints.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2020, 09:24:42 pm »
Well I burnt a hole in the bath and can solder joints either.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2020, 09:26:13 pm »
Bugger!
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Gattopardo

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Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2020, 06:08:40 pm »
Bath now removed, and wish I hadn't noticed the leak.

Suspect a leak of a pipe in the floor, as the flooring compound is wet around one.  Have given up and we have a plumber comng in to solder two pipes as I cannot so give up.

Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2020, 07:52:58 pm »
Bath now removed, and wish I hadn't noticed the leak.

Better notice now rather than let the bath sinks through the rotten floor in a few years ;)

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2020, 10:29:39 pm »
Bath now removed, and wish I hadn't noticed the leak.

Better notice now rather than let the bath sinks through the rotten floor in a few years ;)

Concrete...maybe in bits

I'll stick up photos tomorrow.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2020, 11:12:19 pm »
Well well well, I can't solder as I used a to aggressive scourer (stainless steel) and the wrong flux for the solder as Castorama/brico depot (the same kingfisher group as B&Q) don't sell the right flux in my branches.

Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2020, 04:28:29 pm »
Well if it's any commiseration, I helped my brother in law re-plumb his entire downstairs with the flexible piping you linked to, using a combination of the massive crimping tool that he bought to go with it and compression joints. It worked really well and we got very good at wrestling impossible lengths of it through tiny holes and along massive complex runs and then added flexible couplings to finish the junctions to taps, toilet etc. Also added a single access panel with a series of labelled lock-off valves to switch off independent water supplies remotely.
Great fun!

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2020, 05:08:35 pm »
Well the plumber is here fixing things, and I've walked away as the guy seems to not like multicouche pipe and is saying it all needs to be soldered.  I agree that the 10mm/8mm pipe work that is sunk in to the wall is shit but I'm not smashing tiles out to replace the taps.

Plumber seems to not like olives but fiber joints, so all my olive joints are bad and off he goes. 

After the past two days and dealing with utter shit bags.  Have had enough.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
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Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2020, 12:25:25 pm »
All the multicouche was removed as the plumber said it will all leak.  He doesn't like solder so brazed everything.

He left the fittings that he cut through but didn't forget to take away the fittings and the pipes he didn't.

Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2020, 12:31:12 pm »
All the multicouche was removed as the plumber said it will all leak. 

He's probably one of the many people around here who believes that everything new is necessarily bad. Multicouche didn't exist at the time when he went to the plumbing school, so he will never give it a try! Honestly, I see no reason to say "it will leak". Properly crimped multicouche is as good as properly brazed copper pipes.

A

Gattopardo

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Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2020, 01:01:51 pm »
All the multicouche was removed as the plumber said it will all leak. 

He's probably one of the many people around here who believes that everything new is necessarily bad. Multicouche didn't exist at the time when he went to the plumbing school, so he will never give it a try! Honestly, I see no reason to say "it will leak". Properly crimped multicouche is as good as properly brazed copper pipes.

A

You are right, I am just angry that work I did was deemed poor quality and the part that wasn't leaking.  Well not leaking till he did some brazing.  Oh and taking the undamaged t pieces and leaving the bits that the plumber angle ground apart.

He didn't even preasure test the pipes to see it the pipes in flooring are leaking as there is a patch, in the middle of the floor, that has become like damp powder and exposed the pipe.  Which seems odd as water doesn't beat gravity.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2020, 09:31:15 am »
Well the brazed pipes are leaking, noticed yesterday as the bath room had been used for storage of bits.  He is here today to fix the problem.

He was telling me reasons why there was a leak, he used the wrong paste, so my reply of does that mean all the other joints are going to leak and how are you going to solve any more leaks once the bath is in?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2020, 09:41:06 am »
Is this one of those ‘wry smile’ situations?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2020, 11:09:50 am »
Is this one of those ‘wry smile’ situations?


Feels like he is taking the fucking piss, he removed all the multicouche I put in as it would leak.  Tho that bit didn't leak till he oxy acetylene two copper joints nearby.

Now this is getting funny.  He has just drill through the bathroom wall in to a bed room.  FFS

Been told fitting a small stop tap and a flexipipe to a tap is a bad idea!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2020, 11:20:12 am »
Nice to know that this expert who removed potentially low quality work is producing such exemplary work himself. In your situation, I would try to hold back on the ‘I told you so’ but I would watch him like a hawk.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2020, 11:31:29 am »
Nice to know that this expert who removed potentially low quality work is producing such exemplary work himself. In your situation, I would try to hold back on the ‘I told you so’ but I would watch him like a hawk.

Not even bothering with I told you so.  The GF takes his opinion over mine.

He drilled through the thin wall, that you can see is a thin terracotta wall in to the next bedroom!  TWICE!

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2020, 02:30:25 pm »
No receipt, and the bath left not finished.

Stop tap in downstairs bathroom in the wrong place.  It is going to get pissed on, so have issues.  But hey what do I know.

EDIT: Even after being asked to use the flexible waste pipe so we can remove the ubend easily to clean it, it has been plumbed in with plastic weld pipe. 

Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2020, 06:13:39 pm »
Ugh, what a situation.

honestly I'd just use pushfit with flex pipe (always the barrier type). Inserts on every joint.

the OD is the same as copper. You can use plastic pushfit onto copper . . .

Installed hot water plus central heating on the boat using this (boiler, hot water tank, mixer taps, radiators, bath). Only problem I had was when I didn't drain it down over winter, severe cold froze the water and pushed a joint apart. Very easy to fix.
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Gattopardo

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Re: Anyone used multicouche water tubes? Probably for the francophiles
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2020, 11:33:46 pm »
Am a fan of push fit and use the stop caps often ;)