Author Topic: Solid white line overtaking rules...  (Read 3561 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2020, 02:33:42 pm »
Yes, I knew they were a historical thing cos they can be seen in old photos etc.
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2020, 02:33:58 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?

Isn't this partly why the double white line concept was introduced in the first place, the single solid "absolutely do not cross" line was proving problematic.
When was that? I don't remember there ever being a single solid line.
You can have a single solid line accompanied by a dashed line meaning it is only ok to cross from one side. Always thought that was dangerous as you would not be able to get back.

That's a variant of the double white line.
Sorry I misunderstood.

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2020, 03:10:58 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?

The law for crossing solid white lines is not applicable to pedal cycles, including epacs. See paragraph 5 in the legislation. So cross at will, if you think it’s safe.  Just don’t attach a side car to your bike!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/26/made

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2020, 03:15:05 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?

The law for crossing solid white lines is not applicable to pedal cycles, including epacs. See paragraph 5 in the legislation. So cross at will, if you think it’s safe.  Just don’t attach a side car to your bike!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/26/made
The law about parking (paragraph 2(a)) does not apply to pedal cycles. The law about crossing the lines (2(b)) does.

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2020, 05:04:06 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?

The law for crossing solid white lines is not applicable to pedal cycles, including epacs. See paragraph 5 in the legislation. So cross at will, if you think it’s safe.  Just don’t attach a side car to your bike!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/26/made
The law about parking (paragraph 2(a)) does not apply to pedal cycles. The law about crossing the lines (2(b)) does.

Though the qualification to 2(b) in para 6 would appear to allow a pedal cycle to cross the line to filter past a stationary tailback.

Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2020, 05:30:41 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?

The law for crossing solid white lines is not applicable to pedal cycles, including epacs. See paragraph 5 in the legislation. So cross at will, if you think it’s safe.  Just don’t attach a side car to your bike!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/26/made
The law about parking (paragraph 2(a)) does not apply to pedal cycles. The law about crossing the lines (2(b)) does.

Though the qualification to 2(b) in para 6 would appear to allow a pedal cycle to cross the line to filter past a stationary tailback.
Not just pedal cycles, any vehicle can cross the lines to pass a stationary vehicle. Not sure if a queue would count as “a stationary vehicle”. Certainly stopping in a queue doesn’t count as stopping. The long and short, is that there are no special exceptions specifically for pedal cycles regarding crossing solid white lines.

Edit: particularly if the queue was caused by a hypothetical change in the law to disallow any exceptions to the crossing white lines to overtake.

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2020, 06:34:00 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?
Well you couldn't cross the white lines, any more than any other vehicle. But you generally don't overtake stationery traffic on a bike; you filter past it. So, if you could get past without crossing the lines, and it was safe on other considerations, why not?

Filtering vs overtaking is generally misunderstood, as I see it, when people talk about cyclists "undertaking" in city traffic. Again, generally, they aren't; they are filtering. That's still not always safe, but it's not undertaking. In broad terms, you can only undertake a vehicle if it's moving freely, and very few cyclists are capable of doing that to a motor vehicle.

So the only mention in the HC of cyclists and undertaking is to warn us, when we are turning left, to watch out for other cyclists undertaking us ;D

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2020, 06:46:46 pm »
So where there are solid lines overtaking a broken down vehicle would be a illegal in the suggested revision ? What about cyclists overtaking the massive tailback ?
Well you couldn't cross the white lines, any more than any other vehicle. But you generally don't overtake stationery traffic on a bike; you filter past it. So, if you could get past without crossing the lines, and it was safe on other considerations, why not?

Filtering vs overtaking is generally misunderstood, as I see it, when people talk about cyclists "undertaking" in city traffic. Again, generally, they aren't; they are filtering. That's still not always safe, but it's not undertaking. In broad terms, you can only undertake a vehicle if it's moving freely, and very few cyclists are capable of doing that to a motor vehicle.

So the only mention in the HC of cyclists and undertaking is to warn us, when we are turning left, to watch out for other cyclists undertaking us ;D
Filtering is just a type of overtaking or passing. I don’t believe the term filtering is used in the legislation, thought it does appear in the Highway Code. Unless it was a no overtaking zone and you did not cross the line to overtake, that would indeed be fine. Overtaking on the left hand side is not specifically an offense though discouraged in code apart from in exceptional circumstances.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2020, 06:56:04 pm »
Filtering vs overtaking is generally misunderstood, as I see it, when people talk about cyclists "undertaking" in city traffic. Again, generally, they aren't; they are filtering. That's still not always safe, but it's not undertaking. In broad terms, you can only undertake a vehicle if it's moving freely, and very few cyclists are capable of doing that to a motor vehicle.
I undertook a taxi yesterday.  ;D It was trying to overtake a bus on a very short length of city-centre dual carriageway but a car just behind it had come off the roundabout in the r/h lane and got there first. In the meantime, he'd moved far enough right and still at bus speed that I'd got past him. In any case, it was a bus lane and the bus was stopping in the bus stop about 15m further on, with my turning immediately past the bus stop. (No white lines were crossed in the making of this post. Nor red lines.)
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2020, 07:18:41 pm »
To be fair, my previous statement was based on trying to make sense of the HC, and on the premise that undertaking per se is not allowed. By contrast it's clear that (again, subject to general considerations of safety), two-wheelers are allowed to filter, on either side. The problem is that terms don't seem to be defined anywhere.

I'm prepared to be corrected, but I think that it is very unlikely that an exemption to the general rules on undertaking exists for two-wheelers - i.e. that we are allowed in general to undertake on the left, say pedal cyclists downhill when a motor vehicle was travelling at a (low) speed limit. And I'm pretty certain that motorbikes, which are allowed to filter between traffic lanes, are not allowed to undertake at the speed limit. All vehicles are allowed to filter, for example when two lanes of traffic are moving at different (low) speeds, so I've always seen the acceptance in the HC of filtering by two-wheelers as more of a recognition that we don't always need a painted lane to have space to do that safely. Specific exemptions to rules for particular classes of vehicle are, I think, quite rare.

So some people talk about undertaking by filtering as being permissible, where I've tried to use undertaking only in its obvious sense of overtaking on the left, in which case it's only ever allowed where lanes are dividing into separate roads and so on. As I noted, the HC never talks about bikes undertaking, except for the case I cited where bikes are undertaking other bikes, the point being as I see it that both are probably moving freely, whereas bikes don't often pass freely-moving cars on either side. (I did once catch a veteran car rally while riding a time trial, so I overtook a few that day, but in the usual way on the right!)

It would, I think, be useful if the HC could define its own terms!

Jack_P

  • It's just dicking about on bikes
    • Cycling hobo
Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2020, 09:18:46 pm »
Didn't know about the speed rules on overtaking on solid white lines, and I'd suspect most don't.

One thing that amazes me in the UK is the amount of single carriageway roads that are known death spots for head on collisions.
There are at least three near me with signs telling you how many deaths each year, do they call them red routes?

Why not adopt the USA style solid yellow line, no overtaking ever, and if you do you, then you loose your licence for a year say. maybe people would just accept they are in a queue and listen to their radio and relax rather than trying to save a few seconds overtaking.

arabella

  • no se porque yo no lo se
Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2021, 05:41:00 pm »
Given the number of motorists that overtake and then screech to a halt because there's a junction/the road narrows and something is coming the other way I doubt any change will make any difference ...

I had a chance to ask a couple of them (when I caught them again) why they'd overtaken me and then braked.

motorist #1: ended with "get off the road"
me: you what?

I was slightly better prepared for motorist #2
motorist #2: what was I supposed to do, there was something coming the other way
me: well, either you could see the something coming the other way and you shouldn't overtake cos you can't finish overtaking safely, or you couldn't see far enough ahead and you shouldn't have overtaken because you didn't know it was safe
motorist #2: you mean I have to WAIT
me: that's what the highway code says, yes.
etc.  Though we parted amicably enough.
In the dark, all views are the same.

Re: Solid white line overtaking rules...
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2021, 06:09:01 pm »
Didn't know about the speed rules on overtaking on solid white lines, and I'd suspect most don't.

One thing that amazes me in the UK is the amount of single carriageway roads that are known death spots for head on collisions.
There are at least three near me with signs telling you how many deaths each year, do they call them red routes?

Why not adopt the USA style solid yellow line, no overtaking ever, and if you do you, then you loose your licence for a year say. maybe people would just accept they are in a queue and listen to their radio and relax rather than trying to save a few seconds overtaking.

Yeah:  I sort of suggested that upthread and you can see how well that went amongst a group of cyclists.  Just imagine how a bunch of motons applying good old British common sense will react ...