Author Topic: MPH or KMH?  (Read 19794 times)

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #150 on: 03 January, 2021, 09:38:22 am »
I a country with roadsigns in miles, and with kms not used for distances, it makes literally no sense to provide a routesheet in kms.

Yes, I know audax is validared in kms, but that is just the nominal distance. A 200k audax is almost never 200k anyway.

I like a sanity check for which turn off, in case of driveways and tracks that could be roads. So I'd rather have a routesheet in the same units as my computer at a reasonable level of precision. Miles and yards (or fractions) would not be that, for me at least.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #151 on: 03 January, 2021, 10:37:50 am »
No longer do people rely on log tables and long division. That's what computers are for, and they can work out conversions to far more decimal places that any human can. It's what IT is for.

One of the riders on my audax asked if I could supply a route sheet with the distance in miles rather than km. My initial response was to roll my eyes... But actually it was easy to do - I just pasted the route sheet into Excel and ran a conversion formula on the distances column.

Still using miles and still using a routesheet?  Doubly old-skool!  I hope he turned up on a Pashley, wearing cricket whites?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
MPH or KMH?
« Reply #152 on: 03 January, 2021, 10:41:51 am »
I a country with roadsigns in miles, and with kms not used for distances, it makes literally no sense to provide a routesheet in kms.

Yes, I know audax is validared in kms, but that is just the nominal distance. A 200k audax is almost never 200k anyway.

Personally, I don’t often find distance on road signs useful or relevant for audax navigation (except to use for info controls). But YMMV. Or should that be YKMMV?

Anyway, I guess my point was that it’s no big deal providing the routesheet in both miles and km. I’ll stick to km as the default option, because that’s how I roll, but if you prefer miles, I’m not going to obstinately tell you you’re wrong. That would be silly.

The eye-rolling was just at the prospect of having to do more work, but then it turned out to be hardly any work at all, so all good.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #153 on: 03 January, 2021, 10:44:32 am »
Personally, I don’t often find distance on road signs useful or relevant for audax navigation. But YMMV. Or should that be YKMMV?

Is that because you use a gps?  In which case a routesheet isn't useful or relevant.  ;D

Not so much for non-gps users, maybe.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #154 on: 03 January, 2021, 10:48:52 am »
Is that because you use a gps?

No. I’ve always preferred my routesheets in km, even in the days before I had a gps.

Weird, huh?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #155 on: 03 January, 2021, 10:50:34 am »
Around here, there are plenty of roadsigns without distances on them. Whether they don’t have the distance in miles or don’t have the distance in kilometres doesn’t seem to make much difference.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Davef

MPH or KMH?
« Reply #156 on: 03 January, 2021, 10:51:26 am »
No longer do people rely on log tables and long division. That's what computers are for, and they can work out conversions to far more decimal places that any human can. It's what IT is for.

One of the riders on my audax asked if I could supply a route sheet with the distance in miles rather than km. My initial response was to roll my eyes... But actually it was easy to do - I just pasted the route sheet into Excel and ran a conversion formula on the distances column.

Still using miles and still using a routesheet?  Doubly old-skool!  I hope he turned up on a Pashley, wearing cricket whites?
... and wearing “plus fours” rather than “plus 10.16s”

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #157 on: 03 January, 2021, 11:38:05 am »
According to my former neighbour (Aussie airline pilot), he thinks in nautical miles - universal at sea and in the air - and we should all be standardised on that measure.

Certain countries – including China and Russia – use metric for æronautical purposes and I think it's standard practice among glider pilots too.  Probably because feet, knots and nautical miles are relics of the capitalist running dogs and/or imperialist paper tigers.  Distance in km, altitude in metres.  There have been proposals since approximately forever, or at least WW2, to get the rest of the world to join in but I can’t see it happening any time soon as long as USAnia has a say in the matter.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #158 on: 03 January, 2021, 12:04:44 pm »
Yes, as they say in France, it would 'avoir du poids'
Like all typically British things* the French got there first.

*Yorkshire pudding anyway.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #159 on: 03 January, 2021, 12:09:30 pm »
Is that because you use a gps?

No. I’ve always preferred my routesheets in km, even in the days before I had a gps.

Weird, huh?
I always had routesheets in km because that's how they're supplied. It never occurred to me to convert them. Anyway, according to One More Kilometre and We're in the Showers whether you use km or miles for cycling depends on whether you (or nowadays the ancestor of your organisation) was in with time trialling or road racing (or mods v rockers) back in the 1950s.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Davef

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #160 on: 03 January, 2021, 12:18:26 pm »
Miles and yards (or fractions) ...

Miles, furlongs, chains, yards, feet, inches, thou.
A standard audax is rather neatly 1000 furlongs.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #161 on: 03 January, 2021, 12:21:25 pm »
I always had routesheets in km because that's how they're supplied.

Definitely the majority are in km, although I've had a few supplied in miles over the years.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #162 on: 03 January, 2021, 12:29:44 pm »
Miles and yards (or fractions) ...

Miles, furlongs, chains, yards, feet, inches, thou.
A standard audax is rather neatly 1000 furlongs.

I wandered off to look that up and came across the Cape Foot and the Stadium (which is Latin for στάδιον, something I imagine you all know)


https://www.convertunits.com/type/length

There are loads of great measurements out there! Brilliant!
It is simpler than it looks.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #163 on: 03 January, 2021, 12:36:53 pm »
^^Sounds like my son and his friends (16/17). They'll say they use metric, but if you listen, they use a mixture. Because "it's sense, everyone does that" or something similar.

The measurements are all arbitrary, so they all have relevance and weight. Except length, which has no weight. Just relevance. ;)

A mixture is good. We want our young people to grow up being able to cope with different and difficult situations. Don't we...?

Or do you want them to go off to foreign lands, shouting (slowly) that xxxx measurement is best? You want them to grow up understanding that people are different and live in different ways; and that if the differences are merely about some arbitrary physical measurement, that there is a way to deal with that.

No longer do people rely on log tables and long division. That's what computers are for, and they can work out conversions to far more decimal places that any human can. It's what IT is for.

Who the hell made 10 the best number anyway? Blake Edwards?
I had to look up Blake Edwards. Found he wasn't the leader of Blake's Seven.

Yes, all of that. But more that usage is shaped by environment. If they were growing up in Germany or USA, they'd probably be mono-systemic, or whatever the term should be.

Obviously this means that BRITISH brains, forced to adapt to an ever-changing mix of measures, are far more flexible than the rigid brains of the rest of the world. Except maybe for Ireland, Canada, Australia and even the USA. And we're all less flexibly-brained than people living in the Mediterranean during the Roman Empire, who had to deal with totally different time and date systems from place to place.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #164 on: 03 January, 2021, 06:42:23 pm »
I've just seen this painting by Russian futurist Olga Rozanova from 1916. That tape measure looks like it's in inches, so I checked; the inch was a Russian unit from the time of Peter the Great till 1925, though other units did not necessarily correspond to English ones even if they had the same names.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsolete_Russian_units_of_measurement
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #165 on: 03 January, 2021, 06:46:28 pm »
Miles and yards (or fractions) ...

Miles, furlongs, chains, yards, feet, inches, thou.
A standard audax is rather neatly 1000 furlongs.

It’d be rather fun to have your GPS showing furlongs counting down on an audax.

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #166 on: 03 January, 2021, 07:59:16 pm »
Given almost all panniers and bar bags are a flavour of cuboid, I think what they wanted was probably simple width x depth x height. This wouldn't work so well with saddlebags and not at all with frame bags, though it was before those returned to favour.

Yeah, that's not unreasonable, as long as it's clear which dimension is which.

The size of a barbag, regardless of the cuboid shape, is completely mythical. I have an 8l barbag (made by Oxford so it must be right) which is nicely cuboid. There is absolutely no way I could get four 2l oil bottles in it, let alone one 4l bidon. No way whatsoever! As for the 23l Carradice Camper longflap saddlebag? Pure fiction!! Measuring in mm, cm, inches, light years or any variation of quartz vibration or light wavelength makes no difference to this, the bidons won't go in!

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #167 on: 03 January, 2021, 08:02:44 pm »
It’d be rather fun to have your GPS showing furlongs counting down on an audax.

It would also be fun having your speedo showing three figures on the flat.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #168 on: 03 January, 2021, 08:19:58 pm »
I worked for a company whose clock cards (we had a punch-in and out on card system) ran in 1/100 of an hour.

On maintenance tech training in France we were taught to use hours and decimal divisions thereof because it makes more sense for billing afterwards. A pity that I naturally break things down into units of 5, 10 and 15 minutes. Hours divided into 4 come naturally to me.

In cycling I use metric for everything except gear size (inches, which I work out by taking the roll-out development in metres and cms, then converting into a diameter before converting into inches). I can use gear inches because 1) I have no interest in measuring my cadence or using the maths to calculate my road speed and 2) I have tried converting to metres dévelopement but even though I can work them out in my head and converse with them, the actual figure means absolutely nothing to me as a gear size.

If I were in a country or activity that used imperial I would too and there is still a certain pleasure converting distances between the two. Litres to pints and gallons defeats me though. I just have to use one or the other but no converting!

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #169 on: 03 January, 2021, 08:20:21 pm »
I'm sticking doggedly with furlongs. (FPH) None of this new fangled stuff.
Besides, you get like 7.99998 for a mile. :thumbsup:
often lost.

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #170 on: 03 January, 2021, 08:39:47 pm »
I'm sticking doggedly with furlongs. (FPH) None of this new fangled stuff.
Besides, you get like 7.99998 for a mile. :thumbsup:

Actually, you get exactly 8.

Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #171 on: 03 January, 2021, 09:58:36 pm »
I'm sticking doggedly with furlongs. (FPH) None of this new fangled stuff.
Besides, you get like 7.99998 for a mile. :thumbsup:

Actually, you get exactly 8.

even better then!
often lost.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #172 on: 03 January, 2021, 11:14:06 pm »
Given almost all panniers and bar bags are a flavour of cuboid, I think what they wanted was probably simple width x depth x height. This wouldn't work so well with saddlebags and not at all with frame bags, though it was before those returned to favour.

Yeah, that's not unreasonable, as long as it's clear which dimension is which.

The size of a barbag, regardless of the cuboid shape, is completely mythical. I have an 8l barbag (made by Oxford so it must be right) which is nicely cuboid. There is absolutely no way I could get four 2l oil bottles in it, let alone one 4l bidon. No way whatsoever! As for the 23l Carradice Camper longflap saddlebag? Pure fiction!! Measuring in mm, cm, inches, light years or any variation of quartz vibration or light wavelength makes no difference to this, the bidons won't go in!

I wasn’t sure if there is a standard size for  a bawbag, so I’ve emailed some Weegie friends, and will get back to you when they’ve answered.
It is simpler than it looks.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #173 on: 04 January, 2021, 01:44:13 am »
According to my former neighbour (Aussie airline pilot), he thinks in nautical miles - universal at sea and in the air - and we should all be standardised on that measure.

Certain countries – including China and Russia – use metric for æronautical purposes and I think it's standard practice among glider pilots too.  Probably because feet, knots and nautical miles are relics of the capitalist running dogs and/or imperialist paper tigers.  Distance in km, altitude in metres.  There have been proposals since approximately forever, or at least WW2, to get the rest of the world to join in but I can’t see it happening any time soon as long as USAnia has a say in the matter.

Not so. the Russians gave up on the fully-metric system some years ago, so now it only applies in their lower airspace. China is more metric, but not totally. It uses metres for elevation, but nautical miles for distance and speed. As in any other computer, it is the matter of a button press to have all the altimeters read in metres.

It's a long time since I did any gliding but, rather like Audax, they affect to measure distance in kilometres. Of course they don't really; just like Audax they simply create distance 'gates' beyond which you are deemed to have hit the target. Their instrumentation is conventional feet and nautical miles, and their GPSs display whatever the individual prefers.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: MPH or KMH?
« Reply #174 on: 04 January, 2021, 10:19:15 am »
Given almost all panniers and bar bags are a flavour of cuboid, I think what they wanted was probably simple width x depth x height. This wouldn't work so well with saddlebags and not at all with frame bags, though it was before those returned to favour.

Yeah, that's not unreasonable, as long as it's clear which dimension is which.

The size of a barbag, regardless of the cuboid shape, is completely mythical. I have an 8l barbag (made by Oxford so it must be right) which is nicely cuboid. There is absolutely no way I could get four 2l oil bottles in it, let alone one 4l bidon. No way whatsoever! As for the 23l Carradice Camper longflap saddlebag? Pure fiction!! Measuring in mm, cm, inches, light years or any variation of quartz vibration or light wavelength makes no difference to this, the bidons won't go in!

I wasn’t sure if there is a standard size for  a bawbag, so I’ve emailed some Weegie friends, and will get back to you when they’ve answered.
I think that'd be another variant of "trouser inches" only exaggerated the other way.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.