Tour de France 2021

[rogerzilla]

I feel sorry for Sagan, who was basically taken out by the wobbly Ewan.  Normally he has Teh Uber Skillz on a bike.

[citoyen]

I feel sorry for Sagan, who was basically taken out by the wobbly Ewan.  Normally he has Teh Uber Skillz on a bike.

But did you see the way he kept hold off his handlebars even as he hit the deck? Back up on his feet before Ewan had stopped sliding along the road.

[Hot Flatus]

I feel sorry for Sagan, who was basically taken out by the wobbly Ewan.  Normally he has Teh Uber Skillz on a bike.

I doubt the rest of the riders felt sorry for him. He is known as a liability.

[quixoticgeek]

Looks like the riders are not happy ...

The latest I’m heading on a rider protest is a 50km neutralisation effectively, with no attacking, no racing for the start of the stage.

https://twitter.com/SportsOrla/status/1409618100006367232

J

[Ruthie]

That Super D Miller you s definitely going full Coleman. We had an awfully long history lesson today, the other one had a job to get a word in about the race.

[αdαmsκι]

Lance podcast says G won't start tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WvvJaZGaY8&t=1088s

[Mr Larrington]

I feel sorry for Sagan, who was basically taken out by the wobbly Ewan.  Normally he has Teh Uber Skillz on a bike.

But did you see the way he kept hold off his handlebars even as he hit the deck? Back up on his feet before Ewan had stopped sliding along the road.

Super D Millar was quite vocal about that!  When Crazy P didn’t jump back on his bike immediately I thought for a moment that he was about to kick the prostrate Ewan in the head.

I feel sorry for Sagan, who was basically taken out by the wobbly Ewan.  Normally he has Teh Uber Skillz on a bike.

I doubt the rest of the riders felt sorry for him. He is known as a liability.

He was certainly being a bit muscular at the finish today, and there was the incident with Van Aert last year that saw him copping a hefty penalty. Super D might even be right in his assessment that Sagan is past it.

[nuttycyclist]

I thought it was the whole tour thus far that was carnage.

I have the live ITV4 footage recorded, couldn't watch it all as was working in real time, and when Geraint Thomas fell off I recognised the location as I've holidayed there twice and the beach is where I buried my first child.*

I can't decide whether to watch the live recording, or the highlights, but have no choice in the matter until Mrs Nutty has finished watching Mr Murray playing with his balls.



*I was persuaded to dig her back up in time for sandwiches.    When I pointed out to Miss Nutty that this was the location, she said I need to say "sorry Mr Cyclist, you must have fallen off by hitting the hole my father dug there".

I have now got a chance to watch the recording of the live ITV4.  I understand why I got so confused earlier during a lunch break/phone calls despite knowing the area very well.

The drone footage/peloton footage/breakaway footage/other footage is all accurate - but stitched together by somebody who knows nothing.    As the old sketch says, they are playing all the right footage, but not necessarily in the right order.

I think it's time to switch to the highlights, as I expect that to be at least edited and not "live"

[nuttycyclist]

I am happy to be corrected, but I believe that this is the exact position that Geraint Thomas ended up when the commentators thought he'd quit but he then carried on after being checked over.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.5788604,-3.0491808,3a,75y,220.12h,82.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSDhLy-YY4GViK6vdufu-IA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Please note the traffic calming "to save cyclists from injury" speed bump which he fell over!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.5788227,-3.0495744,3a,75y,239.52h,73.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUBWs3Btzrf3DjkPJ4bKt4A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



FFS  - I've always hated speed bumps and all the other moronic things people insist on blocking perfectly suitable cycle paths (AKA roads) with.

[Nick H.]

Interesting that Cav said the riders were as much to blame as the organisers for the crashes. You can't deny that they manage an awful lot of huge crashes even when the roads are wide.

[nuttycyclist]

I am not a clever photo editor, so I apologise for this photo of my tellybox        (it shows for me in preview, but I know this forum doesn't like to post many images so URL is http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/photos/carnac.jpg)



If you compare it to streetview, I think it's the exact same place (houses in background, bike on side between speed bump and diagonal utility trench
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.5788907,-3.0487892,3a,15y,250.25h,86.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy5pAaJIbGZtN4rLeskLmHQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Interesting that Cav said the riders were as much to blame as the organisers for the crashes. You can't deny that they manage an awful lot of huge crashes even when the roads are wide.

Of course it is the riders to blame for crashes, but how many riders (and drivers) get caught out by gravel/potholes/bollards/other obstructions on what should be a main route?    At least this (nutty implied speed hump issue) was on a road and not a designated cycle route - oh imagine the comments that could have been made...

[nuttycyclist]

and as I restart the ITV4 commentary I hear 'it's a classic Geraint Thomas move, there is nothing going on, I don't know how it's happened, he's just made a mistake, he's just crossed a wheel'.   Followed by "he's broken a bone, he's ok"  (and having done that myself several times on the bike and skiis I know the pain).


errrm, if he crossed a wheel (as opposed to tripping over a speed bump - which I have also done) how comes nobody else was affected until they hit his wreckage?




Edit:
I took the reference to ITV4 "David" out of the earlier post as I wanted no reference to blame/previous misdemeanour's/right versus wrong/etc.    But now I'm later in the live coverage and hearing him blame Geraint for "lapses in concentration", "making a mistake", "taking others out of the race" and the "consequences of his mistakes"...    It was a frikken speed bump and an earlier commentator refereed to it on my pre-recorded coverage before I wasted my evening trying to photograph my tellybox and upload to t'internet.

Seems to me that some commentators are taking a line (during the race) similar to earlier posts (which I stand by mine) that match the attitudes towards certain fans who prefer to turn their back on the racing to get famous on TV.   i.e. somebody to blame, so shout about them irrespective of whether the democracy agrees or evidence has yet to be gathered.

[citoyen]

When Crazy P didn’t jump back on his bike immediately I thought for a moment that he was about to kick the prostrate Ewan in the head.

It did look like he was at very least going to give Ewan a stern talking to, but then probably thought twice about it when he saw Ewan was properly hurt.

[fd3]

It's sad that what makes this year's tour interesting is that
1- many favourites are absent
2- lots of crashes has done for the favourites that are still in the race

It would be nice if Le Tour would be a good watch without maiming a significant amount of the contestants.

The rider safety things is tricky.  The winners are the ones who successfully negotiate the fine line between controlled risk and recklessness, some will push it and rely on luck - but even those taking controlled risks can hit a small pebble (or whatever) and crash - potentially taking out other riders.  If you want to do a Dan Martin and not take the risk it's up to you as a rider - it's not Le Tour that's to blame.  Riders crash on velodromes ffs.  If riders thought that crashes wouldn't happen in races, where have they been all their lives?

I don't see what Le Tour could do to mitigate this, set up speed limits?  Use motorways?

[DuncanM]

errrm, if he crossed a wheel (as opposed to tripping over a speed bump - which I have also done) how comes nobody else was affected until they hit his wreckage?

Without wishing to defend the commentators making stuff up with an air of authority, that's how crossing a wheel works. Look at Ewan's crash - he crossed a wheel and as soon as Merlier moves sideways a touch Ewan is toast.

The Lantern Rouge youtube report points out that one of the Ineos riders actually does a signal to say there's a speed bump. Without conclusive proof, I reckon he crossed whees and then as they came off the speed bump the rider in front moved sideways a touch.

In terms of the course, that finish was a guaranteed crash. 3 right angles and then a sweeper before a really short straight? In some ways they were lucky all the crashes had thinned the bunch - imagine that final km with 3 trains and 10 sprinters, instead of 1 train and only 5 sprinters.

[Mr Larrington]

To my untutored eye the roads used so far this year don't look any worse than those from previous editions of the race.  They haven’t even gone over a slime-covered causeway or multiple sections of narrow cobbled farm tracks.  And if Thomas can’t cope with a speed bump that half the field has already ridden over without issues then this suggests it was him not paying attention rather than the road layout

[T42]

The first week of the Tour is always fraught with crashes. It'll calm down as the days go on.

[citoyen]

To my untutored eye the roads used so far this year don't look any worse than those from previous editions of the race.

In recent years, they have started collecting data on the number of road hazards (roundabouts, traffic islands, speed bumps etc) and there has been a significant increase - especially in the number of roundabouts. France basically has more roundabouts than anywhere else in the world - there's a noticeable drop when they cross the border into eg Italy.

I guess all these improvements designed to make roads safer for everyday users (motorists, pedestrians) have the unfortunate effect of making them inherently less safe for bike racing.

Here's a piece on Velonews from a couple of years ago:
https://www.velonews.com/news/the-impact-of-roundabouts-and-road-furniture-on-the-tour-de-france/

Some of the crashes do seem to be purely down to amateurish standards of riding though. Ewan has only himself to blame for his fall yesterday.

The first week of the Tour is always fraught with crashes. It'll calm down as the days go on.

Does seem to be worse than usual, but I expect you're right that it will settle down.

[tatanab]

Use motorways?

Plympton bypass stage in 1974.  Up and down a short dual carriageway all day.

Riders crash on velodromes ffs. 

And?  I have crashed on the track.  The whole bunch moved right when I was "attacking".  Nowhere to go - BANG.

I cannot recall who said it, may have been Victoria Pendlleton , "if you don't crash once in a while, you are not trying hard enough".

The Caleb crash must have been awful for his back.  I doubt he has any skin left after sliding that far.

[rogerzilla]

You don't get gravel rash from crashing on a track, though - unless it's a nasty outdoor one.  There are also no kerbs or road furniture to hit.

This year has been like a 3rds and juniors race - they frequently end with a pile-up.  I went to watch one in Redditch years ago.  The sound of breaking bikes and limbs, the bikes flying in the air, the meat wagon carting a couple off to hospital...it's enough to make you stick to TTs.

[Mr Larrington]

To my untutored eye the roads used so far this year don't look any worse than those from previous editions of the race.

In recent years, they have started collecting data on the number of road hazards (roundabouts, traffic islands, speed bumps etc) and there has been a significant increase - especially in the number of roundabouts. France basically has more roundabouts than anywhere else in the world - there's a noticeable drop when they cross the border into eg Italy.

I guess all these improvements designed to make roads safer for everyday users (motorists, pedestrians) have the unfortunate effect of making them inherently less safe for bike racing.

Here's a piece on Velonews from a couple of years ago:
https://www.velonews.com/news/the-impact-of-roundabouts-and-road-furniture-on-the-tour-de-france/

One of the TV mob – either *** or Nice C Boardman – noted the explosion in the roundabout population of France a couple of Tours ago.  Bloody roundabouts, comin' over 'ere… There was one crash, IIRC early on stage 1, where an unsighted rider clouted a traffic island strategically placed on a T-junction.  Whether this is better or worse than having to carry a pistol in case of an attack by wolves is left as an exercise for the reader.

You don't get gravel rash from crashing on a track, though - unless it's a nasty outdoor one.  There are also no kerbs or road furniture to hit.

You can still lose plenty of skin though, as I discovered when my elbow met Manchester velodrome at R17.

[citoyen]

You can also get splinters on the velodrome

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/keeping-the-doctor-waiting-cyclist-comes-854692

[Croft]

I remember on the very wet 2007 PBP, not far from today's TdF finish, marshals directing us to ride between the painted stripes of various zebra crossings that were more than a little slippery when wet.

[DuncanM]

You can see the reactions from riders here: https://cyclingtips.com/2021/06/reactions-the-tour-peloton-had-plenty-to-say-about-the-finale-of-stage-3/
There's also an interesting video with Philippe Gilbert at the bottom (if you turn subtitles on they appear in English). He said that various people had the opportunity to make changes to make the final safer, including the teams who did a recon. Apparently ASO were happy to put the GC time point at 5km to go, but the comissaires wouldn't allow it. Also that the penultimate crash of the stage was where it was funnelled into a road with walls either side (giving really poor sightlines) just before the series of turns for the finish. Those turns would make it difficult to move up, so your position at that point was going to be your position at the end, (and so everyone wanted to be at the front and there was nowhere to go when the inevitable crash happened).

[JonBuoy]

That has to smart a bit: https://www.instagram.com/p/CQsz1Oopuqa/

Warning - contains naked Slovenian flesh with lots of dressings.