Items here now won't be there then

[ian]

I suspect bank and credit cards will go the way of cheques, a slow death. I see more and more people waving their phones, but really, any wearable dongle should do the trick, it doesn't even need to be fancy, a small fob on a keyring.

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

[Lightning Phil]

Bankcards, I've not taken my wallet or cards out of the house for about 18 months.

I use my cards every transaction outside now. Even pints in pub.  Cash rarely gets used. I don’t always carry a phone when out and when I do it’s not always a smartphone.

A contactless card is in effect a card shaped dongle when it comes to payment.

[SteveC]

The only times I use a card are buying petrol (as the pay at pump system needs a card) and occasionally in Tesco (as to get the Clubcard points you need to use their app as opposed to Apple Pay and I cannot link my card to the app (complicated story, their fault, can't be bothered to phone up and get it sorted out).
In a couple of weeks time we are going to an event, with a beer tent. Although the event is in the field next to the pub, their wifi won't reach that far so the beer tent is cash only. That will be a novelty.

[ian]

Yes, but there's more convenient format: rings, jewellery, buttplugs, forehead-implanted chips etc. that could be used to make payment. Thought to be honest, why not just biometrics, there's no real need to carry anything.

The first time I paid by watch, the woman behind the counter thought I was a cyborg. I may have failed to disillusion her.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Let’s hope having to pay through the nose doesn’t catch on.

[Cudzoziemiec]

A contactless card is in effect a card shaped dongle when it comes to payment.

Though don't phones etc bypass the card limit and the algorithm that forces you to enter your pin ever n transactions?

[SteveC]

A contactless card is in effect a card shaped dongle when it comes to payment.

Though don't phones etc bypass the card limit and the algorithm that forces you to enter your pin ever n transactions?

Correct. The limit on Apple Pay is £10,000 (or, I assume, whatever your credit limit is, if less than that).

[Mrs Pingu]

Speaking of which I found out the other day that if you want to use the protection that comes with your credit card for a purchase don't use a third party like Google Pay (same rule for booking flights thru someone like Lastminute.com)

[quixoticgeek]

I suspect bank and credit cards will go the way of cheques, a slow death. I see more and more people waving their phones, but really, any wearable dongle should do the trick, it doesn't even need to be fancy, a small fob on a keyring.

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

I think you're massively underestimating the world.

Card payments are common in some areas like .NL and .UK, but even just across the border into Germany, paying by cash is still the norm, a lot of smaller places don't take cards.

I don't think Visa and Mastercard will go away either. Even when you pay with your phone or watch, the backend processing systems all run on visa/mastercard. It's just obfuscated away somewhat.

Oh, and if you think you can get away with not needing your wallet, I welcome you to come to .NL. Even where you see payment terminals. Unless your card is vpay or Maestro, you're not paying. No your apply pay or google cash or whatever it's called won't work either, unless you're Dutch.

Except for areas with very high levels of tourist traffic, if your card is not maestro or vpay, it won't work. If it's got 16 digits on the front of the card. It will not work.

There are some places here that insist on card only, and as a result are locals only. And Dutch people don't realise that Maestro is basically a .NL only thing, But, that's the reality.

So yeah, cash ain't going nowhere. Bank cards ain't going nowhere. Sure in Shorditch a phone or watch is more common, but in the rest of the world. It's still cards and it's still cash.

J

[Kim]

TBH, the only reason the likes of Google and Apple are gaining serious traction for payment for things other apps and music downloads and such is because the USAnian banking system is so backwards about electronic payment.  Paying for an in-person purchase with your phone or watch isn't much different from paying with a card, but it's a hell of a lot more convenient than dealing with cheques.

[Polar Bear]

Speaking of which I found out the other day that if you want to use the protection that comes with your credit card for a purchase don't use a third party like Google Pay (same rule for booking flights thru someone like Lastminute.com)

That Mrs P. Is a very very good point. 

I have two devices which are in theory capable of nfc payments.  My Garmin wearable of course is all but useless in the UK as only a small number of UK banks work with Garmin Pay.  My phone has the ability to use both Samsung Pay and Google Pay but my bank isn't keen on either preferring it's own payment app.  As I don't do online banking I cannot use that app anyway but it's no loss because incredibly they send me a very useful free flat dongle every couple of years which seems to work at contactless terminals everywhere in spite of costing nothing and not requiring a 4g connection.  Amazing, innit!  🤣

[Cudzoziemiec]

That might be the reason in Usania, but in Ukania it seems to be mostly that phones are ubiquitous and ever present. If you've always got your phone with you, why carry a wallet? And it's not just Google and Apple acting as proxies for Mastercard and Visa. Various countries in Africa and Asia have had systems like mPesa for a decade or so.

[Mrs Pingu]

Speaking of which I found out the other day that if you want to use the protection that comes with your credit card for a purchase don't use a third party like Google Pay (same rule for booking flights thru someone like Lastminute.com)

That Mrs P. Is a very very good point. 

I have two devices which are in theory capable of nfc payments.  My Garmin wearable of course is all but useless in the UK as only a small number of UK banks work with Garmin Pay.  My phone has the ability to use both Samsung Pay and Google Pay but my bank isn't keen on either preferring it's own payment app.  As I don't do online banking I cannot use that app anyway but it's no loss because incredibly they send me a very useful free flat dongle every couple of years which seems to work at contactless terminals everywhere in spite of costing nothing and not requiring a 4g connection.  Amazing, innit!  🤣

Interesting, what bank is that?

[cygnet]

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

That is a big shout (I think - although what became of Access - the flexible friend from my childhood adverts...)

And I was only going to add paper staples, to go with my earlier paper clips suggestion.

[Polar Bear]

Barclays.

I keep meaning to move but ironically the service is very good and the branch staff are incredibly professional and helpful. 

[Polar Bear]

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

That is a big shout (I think - although what became of Access - the flexible friend from my childhood adverts...)

And I was only going to add paper staples, to go with my earlier paper clips suggestion.

Access was just a collaborative brand set up by the likes of Lloyds, Nat West etc. to rival Barclaycard.   Although they had centralised processing in Southend iirc, Access cards were issued by the actual banks and customers dealt with their actual bank for day-to-day account management.   I think Access became part of Eurocard and Barclaycard even launched Eurocard products alongside their Visa products. 

Access as a brand disappeared in the nineties I believe.

[robgul]

I suspect bank and credit cards will go the way of cheques, a slow death. I see more and more people waving their phones, but really, any wearable dongle should do the trick, it doesn't even need to be fancy, a small fob on a keyring.

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

Pingit was just that (run by Barclays) but it's been discontinued from July 2021 - no idea why, it was pretty good - I used mine for most transactions - replacing the card sized object but with exactly the same function and transaction limit.

[Jaded]

I suspect bank and credit cards will go the way of cheques, a slow death. I see more and more people waving their phones, but really, any wearable dongle should do the trick, it doesn't even need to be fancy, a small fob on a keyring.

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

I think you're massively underestimating the world.

Card payments are common in some areas like .NL and .UK, but even just across the border into Germany, paying by cash is still the norm, a lot of smaller places don't take cards.

I don't think Visa and Mastercard will go away either. Even when you pay with your phone or watch, the backend processing systems all run on visa/mastercard. It's just obfuscated away somewhat.

Oh, and if you think you can get away with not needing your wallet, I welcome you to come to .NL. Even where you see payment terminals. Unless your card is vpay or Maestro, you're not paying. No your apply pay or google cash or whatever it's called won't work either, unless you're Dutch.

Except for areas with very high levels of tourist traffic, if your card is not maestro or vpay, it won't work. If it's got 16 digits on the front of the card. It will not work.

There are some places here that insist on card only, and as a result are locals only. And Dutch people don't realise that Maestro is basically a .NL only thing, But, that's the reality.

So yeah, cash ain't going nowhere. Bank cards ain't going nowhere. Sure in Shorditch a phone or watch is more common, but in the rest of the world. It's still cards and it's still cash.

J

.NL sounds backward. Like US.

I used a ten pound note today. The first time I've used one for months.

Cash is dead, and, well, dead. Those that think it isn't just haven't got it yet.

[ian]

I suspect bank and credit cards will go the way of cheques, a slow death. I see more and more people waving their phones, but really, any wearable dongle should do the trick, it doesn't even need to be fancy, a small fob on a keyring.

I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

I think you're massively underestimating the world.

Card payments are common in some areas like .NL and .UK, but even just across the border into Germany, paying by cash is still the norm, a lot of smaller places don't take cards.

I don't think Visa and Mastercard will go away either. Even when you pay with your phone or watch, the backend processing systems all run on visa/mastercard. It's just obfuscated away somewhat.

Oh, and if you think you can get away with not needing your wallet, I welcome you to come to .NL. Even where you see payment terminals. Unless your card is vpay or Maestro, you're not paying. No your apply pay or google cash or whatever it's called won't work either, unless you're Dutch.

Except for areas with very high levels of tourist traffic, if your card is not maestro or vpay, it won't work. If it's got 16 digits on the front of the card. It will not work.

There are some places here that insist on card only, and as a result are locals only. And Dutch people don't realise that Maestro is basically a .NL only thing, But, that's the reality.

So yeah, cash ain't going nowhere. Bank cards ain't going nowhere. Sure in Shorditch a phone or watch is more common, but in the rest of the world. It's still cards and it's still cash.

For my sins, I know a lot about payment processing (don't ask, it's as dull as it sounds) – certainly established banking systems have traction, but we've seen a lot of payment systems go, and they're all legacy. Travelling in the far-east and Africa, South America, etc. you'll see a lot more reliance on indirect payment and mobile phones, and not through established mechanisms.

It's axiomatic that once someone declares that something is not going away, the clock is ticking.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I found I needed a pound coin last week. Not £1 in cash, it had to be a pound coin. I was at a campsite and found the showers were coin operated. By this time, there was no one on reception and I didn't fancy asking some other camper to change a tenner, which I did have on me – really didn't fancy carrying around £9 worth of coins. But there were sinks with hot water, I had soap and a flannel, I got clean enough.

£1 does seem a bit expensive for a shower, however you pay for it, but I guess the actual camping at £8 was less than many and hasn't gone up in a few years, so it's all swings and roundabouts, front loading and internal cross-subsidies or other econospeak.

[Kim]

PAYG showers are a work of Stan.  Seriously, just make the camping more expensive.  Worth it not to be fumbling for coins naked with your eyes full of shampoo.  And the afore-mentioned change problem.  I stayed at one a couple of years ago which only took old 50ps, which the owner maintained a supply of as de-facto BRITISH version of those token things all the French campsites seem to use.

Anyway, presumably at some point you'll be fumbling with your phone or Apple watch naked with your eyes full of shampoo.

[De Sisti]

While the phone can do so many things badly that the bloody battery runs out in 4 hours.

Turn off apps to make the battery last longer.

[Cudzoziemiec]

PAYG showers are a work of Stan.  Seriously, just make the camping more expensive.  Worth it not to be fumbling for coins naked with your eyes full of shampoo.  And the afore-mentioned change problem.  I stayed at one a couple of years ago which only took old 50ps, which the owner maintained a supply of as de-facto BRITISH version of those token things all the French campsites seem to use.

Anyway, presumably at some point you'll be fumbling with your phone or Apple watch naked with your eyes full of shampoo.

Yeah, certainly for convenience. Arguably PAYG can work out in the stingy camper's favour. All I need now is a way to wash my hair using a basin of hot water and a flannel! (Good argument for a camelbak style bladder probably!). Equally arguably if you're mixing up wild and site camping, it's precisely for showers that you'll be visiting sites, and if you're only site camping, it's quite likely you want a bit more comfort anyway. And as for fumbling with your phone in in the shower, how reliably waterproof is your phone?

[Zed43]

proper food in supermarkets
affordable air travel
wintersports
common courtesy

[quixoticgeek]

proper food in supermarkets

You're making it too easy to make a joke about Dutch cuisine... :p

affordable air travel
wintersports
common courtesy

Eleven cities race...

J