Home energy saving tips /ideas...

[quixoticgeek]

Plus you'd get the fun of watching the district heating being turned on in waves across the country. I once got told that in Bulgaria the seasonal obsession was watching the communal heating being turned on in turn as the colder weather spread out across the country.  People talked about it like Brits talk about the weather. It's even gets mentioned in the weather forecasts!

Of course it's them out of user control such that buildings have heating set across the building with central control. It often ends up with it being too hot early in the season so often windows are left open with the centrally set heating on full! There's flaws in most things humans do I reckon.

I have district heating at both home and work. Never had any worries about there not being heat. Main issue is being top floor all the air collects in my radiators. So October involves the yearly bleeding all the radiators ritual, followed a week later by doing it again as more air gets trapped.

Every now and then someone downstairs has a plumber do some work on their rads, and then I have to dump a fuckton of air out my rads.

Right now my heating comes from rubbish incineration. But I wonder how long that will last. I fully expect them to install a bloody great water source heet pump to feed it.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

J

[Jaded]

District heating seems to be the smart solution.  For places that aren't BRITAIN, anyway, we'd never do something like that here.

Of course we wouldn't.

There will always be some lazy, good for nothing scammer taking more heat out of the system than they deserve, thus depriving hard-working families of their rightful heat.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Unfortunately, it seems to also mean that come the winter the 3 way valve for the heating/hot water is broken due to lack of use and needs replacing.

It takes a lot less than that for a 3 way valve to fail.  IME, for example, any of these circumstances seem to be sufficient to strain one utterly to deth:

• A 'y' in the day.
• The sky being above the ground
• Something about the colour of grass, I forget.

Odd, that has not been my experience.

I used a Y valve when I installed heating on the big barge. Couple of years of use, in a very damp environment. Then 3 years where the boat was empty, freezing in winter (I forgot to empty pipes one winter, they froze and burst).

Tested the heating about once a year. Y valve worked each time.

Most of them have a lever where you can manually set the valve position. Worth pushing that back and forth before deciding that the valve is knackered, I reckon.

[Cudzoziemiec]

District heating seems to be the smart solution.  For places that aren't BRITAIN, anyway, we'd never do something like that here.

Plus you'd get the fun of watching the district heating being turned on in waves across the country. I once got told that in Bulgaria the seasonal obsession was watching the communal heating being turned on in turn as the colder weather spread out across the country.  People talked about it like Brits talk about the weather. It's even gets mentioned in the weather forecasts!

Of course it's them out of user control such that buildings have heating set across the building with central control. It often ends up with it being too hot early in the season so often windows are left open with the centrally set heating on full! There's flaws in most things humans do I reckon.

It's not out of user control. You still have thermostats on each radiator.

[robgul]

Unfortunately, it seems to also mean that come the winter the 3 way valve for the heating/hot water is broken due to lack of use and needs replacing.

It takes a lot less than that for a 3 way valve to fail.  IME, for example, any of these circumstances seem to be sufficient to strain one utterly to deth:

• A 'y' in the day.
• The sky being above the ground
• Something about the colour of grass, I forget.

Odd, that has not been my experience.

I used a Y valve when I installed heating on the big barge. Couple of years of use, in a very damp environment. Then 3 years where the boat was empty, freezing in winter (I forgot to empty pipes one winter, they froze and burst).

Tested the heating about once a year. Y valve worked each time.

Most of them have a lever where you can manually set the valve position. Worth pushing that back and forth before deciding that the valve is knackered, I reckon.

Fair chance it's just the motor not working, not the physical valve - dead simple to replace and cheap as chips - lots of YT videos - this one does it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT6mq1440zM

[DaveReading]

I know I'm the only person left who likes the change of day light savings. But it was brought in during a time of resource scarcity, to reduce resource use...

Well you, and a few million Scots.

[Mrs Pingu]

<waves>

[cygnet]

I'm just gonna hypothesize here

Would it be better if busineses that are not physically affected by such time constraints (fill in your requirements here) allowed their staff to work Solar fexible hours (even around a "core" time to facilitate real-time and face-to-face) or hands on as required paid appropriately, and just shut up about the rest

The UK is not wide compared to other time zones. It's not "tall" compared to other time zones either.

Obviously some jobs have to be carried out in daylight (or with massive lighting rigs which is not going to go well with carbon reduction.

Could local time work locally? My winter hours are from 9-6 GMT and my summer hours are from 8-5 GMT.

What businesses would be adversely affected?

[Mrs Pingu]

Businesses (in general) can do what ever they want if they don't want to be dicks about it.
My preferred summer hours are 0730 to 1530. My preferred winter hours may be an hour or so later depending on whether I WFH or not.
I cover eastern hemisphere, not a lot of call on my time from Asia Pac but there is from Middle East (who are a royal pain). Also need to be available for the odd training from US but if it's not available at 2pm in general you can watch a recording.
These hours might not exactly fit with whatever my individual customers work in each country but I cover the main bits and if they can't wait a couple of hours then screw them, I'm not working on anything that is critical to people's health or security.

[quixoticgeek]

I work 1000-1800. I fall out of bed at 0955. And face the laborious commute to the other end of my flat. To power up the laptop at 1000.

I do tend to then cycle to work sometime before lunch. The 10 mins it takes is a nice screen break to think about what ever issue I've found sitting in my inbox that morning.

It's very civilised. I'm happier. And more productive than when I used to be forced to be at my desk 30 mins away by 090. That extra 2 hours in bed really works well for me. I goto bed at about 2am. My insomnia is also a lot better. I'm no longer trying to force myself to sleep 2 hours earlier than my body wants to sleep, just so I can be up earlier than my body wants to wake up. I've had insomnia for years. And while it's not completely gone now. (I'm writing this at 0240), it's a lot better than its ever been. The amount of doctors appointments, and prescriptions I've had. All of them to fight against what my body and brain finds more natural. I can't be the only one this is true for.

Many years ago when I was on JSA. I got offered an appointment at something stupidly early like 9am. And when I suggested that I'd be happier with something later. I was told somethy along the lines of "well when you have a job you'll have to get up early anyway, so get used to it".

We know we have people who are more night people and we have mutant weirdos who are morning people. That we have allowed the morning people to completely dictate the timezone that society functions upon feels... Misguided at best.

So many night people would be happier, and more productive of the were allowed to work within what they naturally want to do. Rather than be forced to work against who the are.

Bringing this back to DST. For me it's less about the time shift. As it is about the way it marks to me the changing of the seasons. The 1 hour forward in spring when you suddenly come home from work and it's still light. And you can sit in the early evening sun and have a drink and watch the sun set. And know you've survived another winter. Spring is here, and it's gonna be pretty. The 1 hour back in October is the price paid for that experience in march...

J

[Wowbagger]

This week, there have been two days sunny enough for me to have a hot shower the following morning. There probably won’t be more than two or three of those between now and February.

On the days when the water hasn’t been hot enough, I haven’t bothered having a shower.

[SoreTween]

Fair chance it's just the motor not working, not the physical valve - dead simple to replace and cheap as chips - lots of YT videos - this one does it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT6mq1440zM

Microswitch failure is most frequent, every 2nd winter usually (per switch, there's 2). Motors are good for ~5 years before starting to weaken. I'm currently in year 2 of a complete new head as the previous one had been repaired so many times I gave up with it. Agreed on the valve itself, that's not failed. Yet.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I work 1000-1800. I fall out of bed at 0955. And face the laborious commute to the other end of my flat. To power up the laptop at 1000.

I do tend to then cycle to work sometime before lunch. The 10 mins it takes is a nice screen break to think about what ever issue I've found sitting in my inbox that morning.

It's very civilised. I'm happier. And more productive than when I used to be forced to be at my desk 30 mins away by 090. That extra 2 hours in bed really works well for me. I goto bed at about 2am. My insomnia is also a lot better. I'm no longer trying to force myself to sleep 2 hours earlier than my body wants to sleep, just so I can be up earlier than my body wants to wake up. I've had insomnia for years. And while it's not completely gone now. (I'm writing this at 0240), it's a lot better than its ever been. The amount of doctors appointments, and prescriptions I've had. All of them to fight against what my body and brain finds more natural. I can't be the only one this is true for.

Many years ago when I was on JSA. I got offered an appointment at something stupidly early like 9am. And when I suggested that I'd be happier with something later. I was told somethy along the lines of "well when you have a job you'll have to get up early anyway, so get used to it".

We know we have people who are more night people and we have mutant weirdos who are morning people. That we have allowed the morning people to completely dictate the timezone that society functions upon feels... Misguided at best.

So many night people would be happier, and more productive of the were allowed to work within what they naturally want to do. Rather than be forced to work against who the are.

Bringing this back to DST. For me it's less about the time shift. As it is about the way it marks to me the changing of the seasons. The 1 hour forward in spring when you suddenly come home from work and it's still light. And you can sit in the early evening sun and have a drink and watch the sun set. And know you've survived another winter. Spring is here, and it's gonna be pretty. The 1 hour back in October is the price paid for that experience in march...

J

I work roughly 0700-1200, 1400 - 2000

the 2 hr slot in the middle of the day allows me to do things like; a bit of DIY, walk the dog, go for a jog; basically, get off the office chair and get outside. It will really good in winter, when it is dark for nearly 20hrs.

MrsC has chronic insomnia. I'd prefer to go to bet at 2230, falling-asleep-time about 2300. MrsC will fall asleep then; and wake about 1am, 2am.  Suggested to her that she gets up and does something, rather than lying there exhausted but unable to sleep.

[Mrs Pingu]

Apropos of nothing, I decided to calculate the difference in cost between having our daily showers with the current Pissy Landlord Electric Shower TM vs when I get a proper one plumbed into the gas boiler. Based on 6 mins a day (total for both of us) I reckon £36/yr for PLES vs £41/yr for one connected to the boiler. A bit more, but that doesn't factor in for less time spent rinsing under a decent volume of water for the latter.

[rafletcher]

I work 1000-1800. I fall out of bed at 0955. And face the laborious commute to the other end of my flat. To power up the laptop at 1000.

I do tend to then cycle to work sometime before lunch. The 10 mins it takes is a nice screen break to think about what ever issue I've found sitting in my inbox that morning.

It's very civilised. I'm happier. And more productive than when I used to be forced to be at my desk 30 mins away by 090. That extra 2 hours in bed really works well for me. I goto bed at about 2am. My insomnia is also a lot better. I'm no longer trying to force myself to sleep 2 hours earlier than my body wants to sleep, just so I can be up earlier than my body wants to wake up. I've had insomnia for years. And while it's not completely gone now. (I'm writing this at 0240), it's a lot better than its ever been. The amount of doctors appointments, and prescriptions I've had. All of them to fight against what my body and brain finds more natural. I can't be the only one this is true for.

Many years ago when I was on JSA. I got offered an appointment at something stupidly early like 9am. And when I suggested that I'd be happier with something later. I was told somethy along the lines of "well when you have a job you'll have to get up early anyway, so get used to it".

We know we have people who are more night people and we have mutant weirdos who are morning people. That we have allowed the morning people to completely dictate the timezone that society functions upon feels... Misguided at best.

So many night people would be happier, and more productive of the were allowed to work within what they naturally want to do. Rather than be forced to work against who the are.

Bringing this back to DST. For me it's less about the time shift. As it is about the way it marks to me the changing of the seasons. The 1 hour forward in spring when you suddenly come home from work and it's still light. And you can sit in the early evening sun and have a drink and watch the sun set. And know you've survived another winter. Spring is here, and it's gonna be pretty. The 1 hour back in October is the price paid for that experience in march...

J

With those hours why do you bother about DST?  I’d prefer a lighter evening to a lighter morning. I’m at my desk for 07:30. 

[citoyen]

I reckon £36/yr for PLES vs £41/yr for one connected to the boiler. A bit more, but that doesn't factor in for less time spent rinsing under a decent volume of water for the latter.

Got to be worth an extra fiver a year just so you don't feel like you're being pissed on by a tramp with a dodgy prostate when taking a shower.

[Mrs Pingu]

Quite.

[FifeingEejit]

Apropos of nothing, I decided to calculate the difference in cost between having our daily showers with the current Pissy Landlord Electric Shower TM vs when I get a proper one plumbed into the gas boiler. Based on 6 mins a day (total for both of us) I reckon £36/yr for PLES vs £41/yr for one connected to the boiler. A bit more, but that doesn't factor in for less time spent rinsing under a decent volume of water for the latter.

I've got a mixer shower on the combi-boilers DHW, when the Smart meter works it seems to cost around 20p
I last had a shower using an electric shower at Black Rock Cottage, assuming the coin meter matches the electricity rates I was 34p

But I have considerably better water pressure at home than whot the pumps at Black Rock can produce from the Ski Centre's private supply.

[Mrs Pingu]

20p a day would be £146 a year for 2 of us, which doesn't seem right.

[grams]

Depends on the length of your showers. A good shower needs 10 kW or more. Multiply by 6 minutes you get 1 kWh. Multiply by the inefficiencies of heating water with a combi boiler and current gas unit rates and 20p seems a reasonable figure.

(3 minutes per person is surely well below average)

[Mrs Pingu]

Our shower is only 9.5kw so the 10 or more is academic. My GCH figure is based on a 24kw boiler, and after significantly overestimating somewhere upthread, I timed my shower and it was 3 mins (and that's in the pissy landlord electric shower).

[quixoticgeek]

With those hours why do you bother about DST?  I’d prefer a lighter evening to a lighter morning. I’m at my desk for 07:30.

Well I live in a country that does dst...

As I explained to me it's more about the changing seasons and the lighter evenings of spring. Than it is about anything else.

J

[SoreTween]

Our shower is only 9.5kw so the 10 or more is academic.

Not entirely. You know what a 9.5kW shower feels like, guesstimate what flow rate you'd like to have. Your xxkW desired shower will be xxkW wether it is heated on demand electric¹, on demand from a combi gas², pre-heated by a traditional boiler³, heat pump⁴, solar thermal⁵ etc, etc.

Efficiency of the various types varies but the starting temperature of your incoming water does not. That means the kW put into heating the water to your desired shower is known.

¹ Unlikely, I think 10.5kW is the max you can get.
² Very relevant to know, combis are power limited for each side. You want to know your desired water heating capacity, your heating engineer will calculate your needed room heating side capacity⁶.
³ Basically unlimited so long as your tank is big enough for 2 showers.
⁴ Magic if you are lucky enough to be able to have one as 1kW of water heating takes <1kW of electricity to produce.
⁵ Not gonna happen. Temperature ST heats to is defined by the sun availability, e.g doubling an array size has next to no impact upon its output temperature on a given day.
⁶ Or you can by measuring and looking up the thermal output of your current radiators. Then add a bit where insufficient.

[Ham]

Our shower is only 9.5kw so the 10 or more is academic. My GCH figure is based on a 24kw boiler, and after significantly overestimating somewhere upthread, I timed my shower and it was 3 mins (and that's in the pissy landlord electric shower).

There's your error. If you want an exact like for like, you need to calculate the energy to heat the amount of water you use, the power of the boiler is not directly relevant. Conveniently gas cost these days is expressed per Kwh so, you don't even need to know this to compare. All you need to know is the relative cost per Kwh (appx 4 x for leccy) and the comparative efficiency turning power into heat. Leccy is going to be close to 100%, gas, who knows, say 80% (avoiding the claimed 90%s). Then you have to consider how much more water you will use in a decent shower, and you have the comparative cost.

When you try to get the actual cost, you bump into the factors I was bleating on about earlier, how much "hot" of the hot water are you wasting and not using? Again the leccy is simpler, as it always heats from cold.

[Mrs Pingu]

I don't think I have an answer,  I'm bamboozled by thermodynamics and maths now.