Author Topic: Choosing a union  (Read 2060 times)

Regulator

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Choosing a union
« on: 16 March, 2023, 09:33:04 am »
I'm looking to join a union again.  The TUC has a helpful 'Find a Union' tool, which has basically given me three option:

- Unison
- GMB
- Community

I've heard of Unison and the GMB - I've never heard of Community before.

Unison appears to be the closest match and is involved in the area I work in but, before I go for them, I was wondering if anyone had any experience of the other two unions?  Or of Unison, that I might want to know?
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I completely agree with Reg.

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Bluebottle

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Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #1 on: 16 March, 2023, 11:46:05 am »
I have no experience of any of these, but my questions outside of the general would be, 1) Who is most heavily represented in your workplace? 2) Does anyone else in your workplace have positive or negative experience with any of them?

Obviously, these are questions that might not be relevant to your circs...

The last one...I'm currently on strike. From what I saw, the union local reps were useless in a previous institution, but closer to home and the present day, very good.
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Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #2 on: 16 March, 2023, 01:10:24 pm »
We don't have any recognised unions in our workplace (although I assume that many of the clinical staff with be in their relevant unions).
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #3 on: 16 March, 2023, 01:24:10 pm »
What are your reasons for joining a union? Fighting your corner in salary negotiations and giving you the option to strike, giving advice and support when issues arise at work, or something else?

I left Unison in the last year as I feel they don’t represent me, a higher grade public sector worker, as they are dominated by lower grade staff . I’ve now gone to one that better represents professional groups.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #4 on: 16 March, 2023, 03:35:01 pm »
What are your reasons for joining a union? Fighting your corner in salary negotiations and giving you the option to strike, giving advice and support when issues arise at work, or something else?

I left Unison in the last year as I feel they don’t represent me, a higher grade public sector worker, as they are dominated by lower grade staff . I’ve now gone to one that better represents professional groups.

Generally looking for advice and guidance when issues arise at work. 
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

FifeingEejit

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Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #5 on: 16 March, 2023, 03:47:56 pm »
What are your reasons for joining a union? Fighting your corner in salary negotiations and giving you the option to strike, giving advice and support when issues arise at work, or something else?

I left Unison in the last year as I feel they don’t represent me, a higher grade public sector worker, as they are dominated by lower grade staff . I’ve now gone to one that better represents professional groups.

Unison Scotland have been doing a bit of grovelling to Band 5/6/7 staff recently.
The alternative here is Unite... erm no just no.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #6 on: 16 March, 2023, 04:48:49 pm »
The only union member I have known left it. He worked in a company that had a lot of members of that union and often had union involved in negotiations. He however got very little benefit so left it. Then in his area they negotiated a pay rise for union members. Having left it He thought he'd missed out but no,  he got the exact same deal as his peers. His boss told him they couldn't differentiate between union and non union employees. He never went back to the union but didn't lose out by doing so,  saved his union fees.

Now his issue was that all those years of paying union fees he got nothing. Then when they did something he got it without being a member.  Indeed he heard that the negotisted offer was what they expected to need to give anyway.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #7 on: 16 March, 2023, 05:24:51 pm »
Unison Scotland have been doing a bit of grovelling to Band 5/6/7 staff recently
Still no good for me.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #8 on: 16 March, 2023, 07:10:21 pm »
Unite are slowly improving but it has to rise from a very low bar.

I have no actual experience of the three you mention.  Might be worth seeing how each is involved with the current swathe of industrial action and see what you think about the way they have gone about it and how the publicity looks.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #9 on: 16 March, 2023, 07:14:15 pm »



Generally looking for advice and guidance when issues arise at work.
I'd strongly suggest that you meet with the local reps to make sure you will be able to access the support you want.
There may be a rep (or reps) in your workplace, or you might be accessing support from a regional office.
Either way you need to make sure they are trained and motivated. You will also need to ensure that the reps are able and willing to access support if the issue you are raising is beyond their competence.

I've experienced union reps that have taken on the role for both altruistic and selfish reasons. Neither means they will have the wherewithal to support you if they are disengaged from your issues.

I was a union member (Unite and its predecessors) for 35+ years for a number of reasons - I strongly believed that union membership was the way to make individuals stronger.
I believe that at a national level they did the best possible.
When I needed personal support at the end of my career the local reps (both personal friends) were f*cking useless - they were clueless and refused to seek help from the regional officers.

The whole experience has made me question the role of the union both in the 21st century workplace and in British society.
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Pingu

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Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #10 on: 16 March, 2023, 07:24:01 pm »
The quality of union support is dependent on the quality of the local reps I suspect.

Our Unison bunch seem quite good, but then I haven't had to pursue any personal grievances & stuff...

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #11 on: 16 March, 2023, 08:57:38 pm »
What are your reasons for joining a union? Fighting your corner in salary negotiations and giving you the option to strike, giving advice and support when issues arise at work, or something else?

I left Unison in the last year as I feel they don’t represent me, a higher grade public sector worker, as they are dominated by lower grade staff . I’ve now gone to one that better represents professional groups.

Generally looking for advice and guidance when issues arise at work.
In that case Unison should meet your needs.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #12 on: 17 March, 2023, 07:57:39 am »
The only union member I have known left it. He worked in a company that had a lot of members of that union and often had union involved in negotiations. He however got very little benefit so left it. Then in his area they negotiated a pay rise for union members. Having left it He thought he'd missed out but no,  he got the exact same deal as his peers. His boss told him they couldn't differentiate between union and non union employees. He never went back to the union but didn't lose out by doing so,  saved his union fees.

Now his issue was that all those years of paying union fees he got nothing. Then when they did something he got it without being a member.  Indeed he heard that the negotisted offer was what they expected to need to give anyway.

I have two jobs, one has no union representation, the other has strong union membership.

In the second job, I have been a member for two decades or so and have been involved as a rep at local, district or regional level for much of that time.  You are correct that under UK law, non-members will always receive the same deal that members receive, but non members have absolutely no input, influence or vote on what is negotiated.  But unions are not only about pay.

My role has received many benefits that I strongly believe we wouldn’t have achieved without union intervention.  The union has taken our employers through the employment tribunal and court system several times over recent years to force them to right discriminatory practices.  Some of those court victories have benefited not just members but non members and even employees in other industries and professions as they set precedent for other unions to follow.  This legal support in areas such as age discrimination, unequal treatment of part time workers and alike has benefited me massively.  I gained correct sick pay, correct holiday pay, access to my employer’s pension scheme, and more.  All of which had been legal rights consistently denied to me until the union got involved.  I have also benefited from protection against erosion of my terms and conditions, better pay increases and more.  Other big wins have been in health and safety where the union have fought hard to implement proper safe systems of work rather than be pushed into accepting substandard PPE and unsafe working practices.  I have no doubt this has already saved lives.

As a potential individual member in a workplace with no union recognition, I would be looking at the quality of the reps who would advise me.  What training do they get on things such as discipline and grievance, what expertise do they have in health and safety law, what access do they have to legal backup and how can you as a member call upon it if needed.  A union won’t and can’t win every fight but I would much rather have their resources behind me than stand alone.  It’s an insurance policy and it costs me the equivalent of a couple of pints a month.

Edit - forgot to say - for the OP Community is a general trade union formed in early 2000s from a merger of a number of smaller trade specific federations/ unions.  Iirc, the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation was one, I can’t remember the others.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #13 on: 24 March, 2023, 03:15:37 pm »
I have been a member of a couple of professional institutions in the past.  They used to quote a whole list of benefits and services but when it came down to the actual benefits I found that they were over promotes and not worth the subscription after I reached the point my membership class changed from graduate to a higher grade.

I think unions are only good if you need them. I've never had a need or seen a need.  Legal employment advice can be hit from other means and for less money too. At work there's a few who are a bit into fighting their corner over what most see as nothing. They use citizens advice and then move from there. I know of one person who went down that route and got a 6 figure payout and still kept their job.

I've also known big company executives who made a very well paying career from winning employment tribunals for their companies. Their jobs included young into branches of acquired companies and closing them down the cheapest possible way. Often a good way of reducing redundancy payouts was by sacking as many as possible first. One guy was proud of that and said he could sack anyone and get away with it. Having heard about his employer having beaten unions in tribunals I tend to agree with his statement that you can sack anyone if you have your paperwork right.

Not a nice guy at all but I got a no score draw in a grievance with him on my own and later cheered his removal from post 6 months later! He was a grammar school prefect from a rough area. His school had two prefect types, the shots from posh areas and those bulldog types with broken noses. The shots told the bulldogs what to do and they sorted the problem out.  He was the second bruiser type and good at it from his school years.  Plus he was clever too.

Sorry,  I digress.  My point being that any employment dispute is basically going to come down to which side is better at it.  At playing the game. I'm not sure unions have the best in that respect. Mind you I've never worked anywhere that recognised or allowed unions.  Decades ago I heard about someone who had agitated for unions before I'd been taken on. He didn't last long and his union didn't help him. After that nobody else was interested in unions. Not because of that guy's dismissal but because they saw how little the guy's union reps did for him.  Possibly because he was the only member. It was one of the general manufacturing unions.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #14 on: 24 March, 2023, 03:20:33 pm »
Despite my comments above I would be interested to know what union would suit me if anyone can help. I work in an SME, salaried and supposedly oart of the management team of which there's not many.  This means I do many functions.  I'm in a manufacturing company in the automotive and other sectors. Everyone including owners get stuck in if needed.

I can't really imagine I'd need a union due to the way it's run but out of curiosity I'd be interested to find out what union might suit.

Pingu

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Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #15 on: 24 March, 2023, 04:34:22 pm »
...My point being that any employment dispute is basically going to come down to which side is better at it.  At playing the game. I'm not sure unions have the best in that respect. Mind you I've never worked anywhere that recognised or allowed unions.  Decades ago I heard about someone who had agitated for unions before I'd been taken on. He didn't last long and his union didn't help him. After that nobody else was interested in unions. Not because of that guy's dismissal but because they saw how little the guy's union reps did for him.  Possibly because he was the only member. It was one of the general manufacturing unions.

Employment law is stacked in favour of employers and against unions.

Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #16 on: 24 March, 2023, 05:39:27 pm »
Having lived through the 70s I'm afraid that I think that's preferable to it being the other way.

Still, my parents found it had its benefits back then.  When the lights went out everywhere there was less complaints from us kids about going to bed!  😂

telstarbox

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Re: Choosing a union
« Reply #17 on: 24 March, 2023, 06:23:40 pm »
Prospect might help you - I'm in a technical job in a SME. I'm an individual member rather than via a recognition agreement.
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