Author Topic: adding infos to a .gpx  (Read 4102 times)

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
adding infos to a .gpx
« on: 24 July, 2023, 05:33:13 pm »
I'm going to have a go at flagging up infos so they alert on peoples' devices.

Is the easiest way to add them in RWG or add POIs in Basecamp?

Diesel

  • or Richard
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #1 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:13:41 pm »
It may be tricky to find a way that works for both Wahoo/ Garmin and other device. But I know that Lightning Phil has done work on this and come up with a solution for his events.

The best I have found for Wahoo so far - is to create custom cues in RWGPS selecting a relevant 'type' and this will display as a cue on a Wahoo.
As far as I recall, creating POIs or Control Points on RWGPS don't transfer to Wahoo


GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #2 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:15:25 pm »
Thanks; RWG charge for POI and custom cues.

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #3 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:21:22 pm »
I've just opened Adamski's track from last year using Notepad; he added waypoints at the start for the controls. I suppose I could copy the infos into waypoint locations but seems long winded.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #4 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:30:04 pm »
Waypoints are pretty universal.
I've not found PoIs or Proximity Alerts to work with current Garmin cycling devices, eg Edge series.

Best I would do is include Waypoints at the controls.

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #5 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:32:43 pm »
how do I add waypoints in RWG )free) or Basecamp?

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #6 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:49:40 pm »
I'm a subscriber on RWPS and write it into the cue sheet for all my entrants.  Very easy to do.

I am not sure whether the facility is available to non-subscribers.
Organiser of Droitwich Cycling Club audaxes.  https://www.droitwichcyclingclub.co.uk/audax/

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #7 on: 24 July, 2023, 06:58:19 pm »
I found a way to do it on Basecamp;

click the waypoint tab and drop one near the point. Move it to the exact location and rename it. Then send it to the track, it is now shown on RWG.

Will try it  :thumbsup:

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #8 on: 24 July, 2023, 07:01:24 pm »
Basecamp

In Basecamp if you add waypoints for Info Controls with proximity alarms then export to GPX.
   That format will alert on Etrex style GPS
   It won’t alert on Garmin Edge or Wahoo

Garmin Connect


In Garmin Connect if you add course points for infos to a course. Note descriptions limited to 15 chars as per original 2003-4 TCX / CRS XML spec.

  That format when synced will alert on Garmin Edge
  If you export to GPX and reimport as a different course it remembers the course points

RWGPS

In RideWithGPS premium  if you add custom cues for info to a route. Descriptions not limited to 15 chars

  The custom cues will alert on a Wahoo after they pin the route and sync.

I tend to use CTRL / CKPT / INFO <Name> as the description truncating as best I can to 15 chars for Garmin Etrex and Edge.

Organiser Workflow

As to organiser workflow. Basecamp just crashes on my PC these days and I no longer use it.

1. I create course in Garmin Connect, adding course points
2. I export that to GPX, which converts course points to waypoints with additional information Connect recognises should you reimport to a duplicate course.
3. I run it through my simple-gpx utility which adds the additional information for both proximity alarms and Wahoo cue points.
4. The resulting GPX becomes what I offer for Etrex users
5. The resulting GPX is imported to RideWithGPS and it converts the waypoints to custom cues even in basic RWGPS. These can be synced to Wahoo and will alert.

The work on getting it to work with Wahoo devices was done with Diesel’s help as he has two such devices to test the results on.

But

However…

1. With increased entries for PBP this year, I used some of the entry fees to pay for a premium RWGPS account.  I now have RWGPS auto trace the route to also add cues for turn by turn navigation on Wahoo devices.
2. The version of simple-gpx that converts waypoints such that RWGPS recognises then as custom cues on import; only exists on my PC.  I never released the updated version for general use on the web.
3. I started work on a more advanced version of simple gpx after Basecamp stopped working on my PC. To do all the manipulation that I used to do there such as splitting and joining tracks, reversing them, changing the start point etc as well as all the existing features of simple-gpx. The new version includes mapping to do some of the work visually with a mouse.

Priorities

But other priorities have taken over at the moment. I likely won’t revisit the next generation of simple gpx till we hit autumn. Thus the new feature for Wahoo custom cue generation remains just for my use for now. Oh and this new version also auto creates a tcx from the gpx as well, as thst was trivial to add whilst in the code.

Important

Note it is important that the latitude and longitude of the waypoints exactly match that of a point on the track in the GPX.  My simple-gpx (on PC) finds the nearest track point for each waypoint and makes the coordinates exactly the same.  If they are not the same they won’t be recognised as custom cues when imported to RWGPS and won’t alert on Wahoo units. 

If it sounds complicated that’s because it is, to get alerts on all of these different types of devices, without duplicating your effort.  Hence why I updated simple gpx to do the heavy lifting for me. It took several tests over last winter, with Richard’s help, to get the Wahoo bit working. The main issue being there isn’t a simple document you can read to work out what each device type needs for them to alert your control locations.

If you’d like me to run some gpx (with waypoints) through the version of simple-gpx on my PC and fire them back for you to import to RWGPS basic as custom cues. Then I can do that. But not till next week at earliest.

Remind me next week and I’ll also post here what the waypoints and rest of GPX file needs to look like, for RWGPS to import as custom cues for Wahoo. You can then at least do some manual edits for that, should you wish.

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #9 on: 24 July, 2023, 07:13:33 pm »
When downloading someone else’s route as a GPX from RWGPS the waypoints aren’t included unless the downloading user has a paid account. I’m not certain if this applies to other ways of getting the route onto your device (eg direct sync with Wahoo or Garmin).

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #10 on: 24 July, 2023, 07:29:29 pm »
When downloading someone else’s route as a GPX from RWGPS the waypoints aren’t included unless the downloading user has a paid account. I’m not certain if this applies to other ways of getting the route onto your device (eg direct sync with Wahoo or Garmin).

It is not POIs  that Wahoo needs but custom cues to alert.  Custom cues will sync to a Wahoo even if they have a basic RWGPS account. As for alerts for other devices, they are catered for via Connect and GPX already made available to entrants.

I’ve always provided a GPX with waypoints (with proximity alarms) for controls for all of my events. What’s new in the last year is that I now also provide Garmin Connect and RWGPS links for Garmin Edge and Wahoo users resp.

Now anyone on my events with a Garmin Etrex, Edge or Wahoo will be alerted for all control locations. Before it was just Etrex guaranteed to do that.

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #11 on: 24 July, 2023, 07:47:29 pm »
I've done it before by editing the GPX file in a text editor and adding the tags before the main trkseg bit...


<wpt lat="51.310187" lon="0.189898">
    <ele>0</ele>
    <name>Otford</name>
    <sym>Waypoint</sym>
    <type>Generic</type>
  </wpt>
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #12 on: 24 July, 2023, 09:34:46 pm »
I've done it before by editing the GPX file in a text editor and adding the tags before the main trkseg bit...


<wpt lat="51.310187" lon="0.189898">
    <ele>0</ele>
    <name>Otford</name>
    <sym>Waypoint</sym>
    <type>Generic</type>
  </wpt>

Thanks  :)

here's one I made earlier

  <wpt lat="51.174940774217248" lon="-0.020435582846403">
    <time>2023-07-24T17:40:45Z</time>
    <name>info</name>
    <sym>Flag, Blue</sym>
    <type>user</type>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:WaypointExtension>
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
      <wptx1:WaypointExtension>
        <wptx1:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</wptx1:DisplayMode>
      </wptx1:WaypointExtension>
      <ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
        <ctx:CreationTime>2023-07-24T17:40:45Z</ctx:CreationTime>
      </ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>

how much of that do I actually need given that the track has no times as it was created on RWG? Looks like I just need to edit the lat/long and the name from your example? and I presume I need to delete the trackpoint that shares the same coordinates?

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #13 on: 24 July, 2023, 09:42:32 pm »
I would have created the GPX from a Strava route (not a recorded ride) so my file has no time points in the first place.
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #14 on: 24 July, 2023, 09:50:01 pm »
I would have created the GPX from a Strava route (not a recorded ride) so my file has no time points in the first place.

it shouldn't have any times, until yesterday (a different track)  the route had never been ridden, The old AUK software confirms there are no timing points

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #15 on: 24 July, 2023, 10:06:06 pm »
You don’t need the time and you don’t need any of the extension crap / bloat.  If you want it to alert on Etrex units you do need to add the proximity alarm extension , plus the extension schema in the GPX tag at the top.

At the moment it will just display on the Etrex map page, with no alerting when a rider reaches its location.

Leave the trackpoint with same coordinates in place.  It will be necessary if you want to move on to creating alerts for Edge and Wahoo devices.  The Etrex treats the track and waypoint separately. It can and will show and alert waypoints even if there’s no track or route being navigated or present. If you remove the trackpoint and it was on a turn then your gps will draw a shortcut between the trackpoints either side, cutting the corner.

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #16 on: 25 July, 2023, 07:47:03 am »
Basecamp shows the waypoints with an index number and North / East bearings whereas Notepad shows a decimal number with no index. How can I identify the waypoints within the track?

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #17 on: 25 July, 2023, 08:18:16 am »
I've done it before by editing the GPX file in a text editor and adding the tags before the main trkseg bit...


<wpt lat="51.310187" lon="0.189898">
    <ele>0</ele>
    <name>Otford</name>
    <sym>Waypoint</sym>
    <type>Generic</type>
  </wpt>

Any other tags needed for Wahoo alerts? Been trying to get a workable method for this for ages with mixed success. It would be very nice if Wahoo would develop a tool, but no joy yet.

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #18 on: 25 July, 2023, 08:39:47 am »
Basecamp shows the waypoints with an index number and North / East bearings whereas Notepad shows a decimal number with no index. How can I identify the waypoints within the track?

actually I found an easier way in Basecamp; open the track and drop Waypoints and rename as required. When finished select them all and send to the track. They now appear in RWG.

The main reason for this is that many Audax newbies just follow the track and expect everything they need to be shown on it rather than combining it with the Brevet card. For my own rides I create a route on Basecamp (I have an etrex) and always have a Viapoint at the infos which alerts.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #19 on: 25 July, 2023, 04:29:00 pm »
I've done it before by editing the GPX file in a text editor and adding the tags before the main trkseg bit...


<wpt lat="51.310187" lon="0.189898">
    <ele>0</ele>
    <name>Otford</name>
    <sym>Waypoint</sym>
    <type>Generic</type>
  </wpt>

Any other tags needed for Wahoo alerts? Been trying to get a workable method for this for ages with mixed success. It would be very nice if Wahoo would develop a tool, but no joy yet.


With the caveat that I know nothing about the special requirements of Wahoo devices, this is the form the waypoints took in the GPX files for my last event:

  <wpt lat="51.31492" lon="0.98421">
    <name>01 INFO Dargate</name>
  </wpt>

(ie you don't even need the <ele>, <sym> or <type> tags, but I note Phil's point about needing to include the proximity alert for Etrex devices. I've always managed without proximity alerts on my Edge.)

IIRC, I created the waypoints in GPX Editor (have also used Basecamp) and exported them as a separate file to the track. You can then copy and paste the waypoints into the main track in a text editor.

3. I run it through my simple-gpx utility which adds the additional information for both proximity alarms and Wahoo cue points.
...
Note it is important that the latitude and longitude of the waypoints exactly match that of a point on the track in the GPX.  My simple-gpx (on PC) finds the nearest track point for each waypoint and makes the coordinates exactly the same.  If they are not the same they won’t be recognised as custom cues when imported to RWGPS and won’t alert on Wahoo units. 

Useful to know, thanks!
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #20 on: 26 July, 2023, 08:10:56 am »
This is how Basecamp treats waypoints; no idea if it will alert on my eTrex will try (although very few riders use them these days)

  <wpt lat="50.817115399986506" lon="0.288796126842499">
    <time>2023-07-25T07:03:38Z</time>
    <name>Pevensey</name>
    <sym>Flag, Blue</sym>
    <type>user</type>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:WaypointExtension>
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
      <wptx1:WaypointExtension>
        <wptx1:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</wptx1:DisplayMode>
      </wptx1:WaypointExtension>
      <ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
        <ctx:CreationTime>2023-07-25T07:03:38Z</ctx:CreationTime>
      </ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #21 on: 26 July, 2023, 09:15:43 am »
This is how Basecamp treats waypoints; no idea if it will alert on my eTrex will try (although very few riders use them these days)

No, it won't - there's no proximity alert tag.

Quote
  <wpt lat="50.817115399986506" lon="0.288796126842499">
    <time>2023-07-25T07:03:38Z</time>
    <name>Pevensey</name>
    <sym>Flag, Blue</sym>
    <type>user</type>
    <extensions>
      <wptx1:WaypointExtension>
        <wptx1:Proximity>100</wptx1:Proximity>
      </wptx1:WaypointExtension>

      <gpxx:WaypointExtension>
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
      <wptx1:WaypointExtension>
        <wptx1:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</wptx1:DisplayMode>
      </wptx1:WaypointExtension>
      <ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
        <ctx:CreationTime>2023-07-25T07:03:38Z</ctx:CreationTime>
      </ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>


This is what it would look like if you stripped out all the bits you don't need (red) and added what you do need (blue) for a 100m proximity alert.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #22 on: 26 July, 2023, 09:34:53 am »
but will the proximity alert work for an Edge?

Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #23 on: 26 July, 2023, 09:51:34 am »
Already answered in my reply #8 yesterday

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: adding infos to a .gpx
« Reply #24 on: 26 July, 2023, 09:53:21 am »
Basecamp

In Basecamp if you add waypoints for Info Controls with proximity alarms then export to GPX.
   That format will alert on Etrex style GPS
   It won’t alert on Garmin Edge or Wahoo

Garmin Connect


In Garmin Connect if you add course points for infos to a course. Note descriptions limited to 15 chars as per original 2003-4 TCX / CRS XML spec.

  That format when synced will alert on Garmin Edge
  If you export to GPX and reimport as a different course it remembers the course points
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."