Eco laundry liquids...

[andyoxon]

Any 'consumer chemists', or anyone who knows about this, out there?      We've been using Ecover (non-bio) "with plant based, biodegradable ingredients".  'Normal' prices are up to £10 for 1.5L, compared to e.g. Tesco non bio 1.8L for ~£3.50, so it's pretty expensive.   Just how much better is it for the environment, and in what way?  Worth it?   Ecover also says 'septic tank friendly' (not that we have a ST), so other std detergents are not I guess?  Both products require simialr volumes to be used, and both have non-ionic & anionic surfactants.  Ecover doesn't appear to have phenoxyethanol.

Thoughts, what do you tend to use?

edit.

[mrcharly-YHT]

We have switched to using Smol for washing up liquid, surface cleaning, handwash and laundry detergent. Abandoned ecover some years ago, because there are milk proteins in their products and we have a family member who reacts to those.

Powders are a big no no for septic tanks. I think most liquids will be ok, but if you overuse, then anything will be bad.

You can get a free trial of their products, delivered by mail.

If you try and like, we probably have discount codes.

[rafletcher]

The Ecover stuff (we use it) is rather more concentrated than the supermarket ones - but of course you're paying for the ecp-marketing. 

HAve a look here for some comparisons of eco-stuff.

https://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/category/cleaning-and-household/laundry/laundry-liquid/eco-friendly.htm

[quixoticgeek]

Any 'consumer chemists', or anyone who knows about this, out there?      We've been using Ecover (non-bio) "with plant based, biodegradable ingredients".  'Normal' prices are up to £10 for 1.5L, compared to e.g. Tesco non bio 1.8L for ~£3.50, so it's pretty expensive.   Just how much better is it for the environment, and in what way?  Worth it?   Ecover also says 'septic tank friendly' (not that we have a ST), so other std detergents are not I guess?  Both products require simialr volumes to be used, and both have non-ionic & anionic surfactants.  Ecover doesn't appear to have phenoxyethanol.

Thoughts, what do you tend to use?

edit.

I buy ecover in 5l bottles, which last me almost a year. It's about €25 a bottle.

Dunno if they are available in the UK for the same sort of price, but I get it mail order as the supermarket started selling only the zero fragrance stuff, which did nothing to remove the smell of sweaty cyclist from my cycling clothes.

J

[pumpkin]

I use ecover zero sensitive (no fragrance) with a cap of anticbacterial liquid in the rinse drawer. No sweaty smells. Ecover is sometimes down to £7.50 for 1.5 ltr but can be bought in 5 ltr containers on ebay for about £23. Boots do their own wash liquid

https://www.boots.com/boots-sensitive-skin-laundry-liquid-1litre-10095130?cm_mmc=bmm-buk-google-ppc-_-PLAs_HeroCompare-_--_-PMax:+UK_Smart_Shopping_Healthcare_Other&gclid=CjwKCAjw5_GmBhBIEiwA5QSMxJuBT9z_PzIRTjPV-hVqPaD0ZwkL2UXtU8wDkwo9uO4Ngm3izfcEmRoC05kQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds  which is actually Halo brand (judging by the scent)

[Blazer]

Another recommend for SMOL - love all their products.

[Soaplady]

Have you thought about laundry sheets - do just as good a job and more planet-friendly (no plastic bottle).

[Polar Bear]

We moved to sheets about a year ago now.  Wilko's sell Dr. Beckmann's in both bio and non bio.  I'll be needing to find a new local supply now I expect.

We find them every bit as good as the Ecover that we used to use for the non-bio and now we don't need a less environmentally friendly bio detergent for those occasional necessities.

And for the cycle tourists:  much easier to carry and no spillage risk.

[Kim]

I just had to look up laundry sheets, interesting.

My choice of laundry detergent is entirely on the basis of what pongs less and doesn't bring me out in a rash, so I tend to eschew innovations except when whatever I'm currently using is discontinued, and I distress purchase whatever's on the shelf and seems less stinky.

[Polar Bear]

I don't like pongy detergents which has been a bit of an issue for me over the years.  A bed and breakfast with stinky sheets and pillows is never pleasant.

I don't notice an odour with the laundry sheets but that may in part be because we dry on a washing line.  I'll have to look at the packet to see if these have a fragrance.

[mrcharly-YHT]

We tried the sheets.

I found them utterly useless at removing BO from really dirty clothes.

[Paul H]

I use liquid soap for most of my laundry, I used to be a lot surer of the environmental case than I am now, there's a lot of contradictory information, but gut feeling is it's a more natural product. As with all things eco, the starting point ought to be using less.

[phantasmagoriana]

I've just switched back to powder, having used liquid for many years (though I'll still be using liquid for some things). The laundry smells fresher (which is a big plus, having nowhere to line dry), and it seems less wasteful to buy cardboard boxes rather than plastic bottles.

We tried the sheets.

I found them utterly useless at removing BO from really dirty clothes.

I got a pack a while back and have yet to try them out, because I was concerned this might be the case...I might keep them as emergency spares. Or for travelling.

[andrewc]

I've been using this stuff, which meets my modest needs.  It doesn't seem to smell of anything & gets stuff clean.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Castile-Liquid-Soap-Base-Litre/dp/B07D8VC7DX/ref=sr_1_6     The 5L size has lasted me a year (single person household).    Decant into smaller bottle as required.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I use ecover zero sensitive (no fragrance) with a cap of anticbacterial liquid

Which antibacterial liquid do you use?

I use bio powder for non-delicate stuff on the understanding that a) the bio enzymes degrade quickly in the environment and apparently do little harm in the general scheme of things b) it comes in a big cardboard box and c) at least 2 washing machine fettlers have convinced me that powder is better for the machine and its associated drain pipes.

However - I also use Ecover wool detergent for wool, of which I have quite a lot, and Grangers tech wash occasionally for synthetic bike stuff like bibs.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I hadn't heard of laundry sheets either, so looked them up: https://washwithleaf.com/. I don't see any claim, let alone evidence, of their eco-ness, apart from not using plastic: and that can be avoided by refilling the original bottle.

[ravenbait]

The difference with most eco liquids is the reduction in phosphates, which is fine if you're in a soft water area, but utterly hopeless for washing if you live in a hard water area. I can explain the chemistry if you want, but I'm just back from a run and my brain is too hot to do it just now, so you might as well google it.

Smol's only claim to eco-ness is the packaging being made of cardboard. It also uses phosphates. I tried them, they were fine, but so is Fairy.

I use Bio-D liquid, because I need some sort of smell in there and the Juniper is natural and doesn't bring me out in a rash. I can't remember why we stopped using Ecover. There was a reason. I live in a soft water area and buy in bulk from https://biggreensmile.com. They have a British warehouse, if that's a concern. The only other effective eco stuff I've come across is.... Oh what was it called? Had a clownfish on the bottle. Attitude? Looks like it has a penguin now. Don't like Method, it's itchy. There was another one, but I can't remember the name and I've only ever seen it in Realfoods in Edinburgh anyway. They don't have it now, so I assume it's not longer made.

Mind you, I haven't tried all of the vast range that BGS have on offer.

We use Dettol laundry additive. If Mr Bait has been particularly sweaty out on his 10-15k, I use Halo and Dettol. (The sensitive variety, which has no added perfume.)

Sam

[Cudzoziemiec]

I like Bio-D purely on the grounds that, according to what someone told me at least, it's made in Hull. I have fond memories of childhood visits to cousins and people in Hull. Though I don't actually remember anything of the city itself.

[quixoticgeek]

The difference with most eco liquids is the reduction in phosphates, which is fine if you're in a soft water area, but utterly hopeless for washing if you live in a hard water area. I can explain the chemistry if you want, but I'm just back from a run and my brain is too hot to do it just now, so you might as well google it.

I would be interested in this explanation when you have recovered from your run.

J

[Kim]

I like Bio-D purely on the grounds that, according to what someone told me at least, it's made in Hull. I have fond memories of childhood visits to cousins and people in Hull. Though I don't actually remember anything of the city itself.

It's got cycle infrastructure and cream telephone boxes and a massive bridge to nowhere in particular and a peculiar leisure centre with no drinking water.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I like Bio-D purely on the grounds that, according to what someone told me at least, it's made in Hull. I have fond memories of childhood visits to cousins and people in Hull. Though I don't actually remember anything of the city itself.

It's got cycle infrastructure and cream telephone boxes and a massive bridge to nowhere in particular and a peculiar leisure centre with no drinking water.

And it used to have a Victorian poster that had survived to around 1980 in the subway underneath the station, complete with Victorian pointy fingers. And it has haddock. Curiously, yesterday I was in a pub in this here Bristol, with someone from Hull, someone from Coventry, and one from Barton Hill (a very Bristolian part of Bristol). Hull person said "My parents are used to haddock straight out of the North Sea, they don't believe you can get good fish and chips in Bristol. But I took them to Bishopston Fish Bar and they agreed you can."

[Bluebottle]

The difference with most eco liquids is the reduction in phosphates, which is fine if you're in a soft water area, but utterly hopeless for washing if you live in a hard water area. I can explain the chemistry if you want, but I'm just back from a run and my brain is too hot to do it just now, so you might as well google it.

I would be interested in this explanation when you have recovered from your run.

J

The main thing that does the cleaning in a detergent is usually a surfactant that has a long(ish) oily “tail” that ends at one side with a “head” group that has a negative electrical charge. (Often sodium laureth sulfate or sodium lauryl sulfate, the sulfate being the negatively charged part, the laureth or lauryl being the oily taily part). Surfactants work as the oily tail part scavenges dirt and clump together leaving the charged head groups poking into the cleaning water. All this is fine if you can keep the head groups with this negative charge.

Unfortunately, in hard water areas, the water has higher amounts of calcium and magnesium dissolved in it, both of which are positively charged. Electrostatics being as they are, the positive charges on the calcium and/or magnesium are attracted to the negative charges on the surfactant and this stops the surfactant working so efficiently at attracting all the dirt. This is why you need more fairy liquid/shampoo/shaving foam/etc to get the same foam in Kent as you do in Scotland.* It is also why we (who live in the sarfeast) get an absolute bollocking from the MiL (who lives in Aberdeenshire) for using too much detergent whenever we visit. There is an argument to be had about Aberdonians generally being quite grippy, but lets not go there…

Anyway, cleaning product developers put in chemicals known as builders to try to bind up all the calcium and magnesium before they can be attracted to the surfactant. Some phosphates are excellent at this, and scavenge enough of the calcium and magnesium to allow the surfactant to do its job. Unfortunately, some phosphates have been known to be pretty efficient at acting as nutrients for algae, leading to algal blooms, hence the eco aspect of ecover avoiding the use of phosphates.

*As an aside, too much foam in your washing machine is also bad for performance as it acts as a cusion for the washing being agitated in the drum which makes dislodging dirt more difficult.

[Mrs Pingu]

*As an aside, too much foam in your washing machine is also bad for performance as it acts as a cusion for the washing being agitated in the drum which makes dislodging dirt more difficult.

Speaking of which I just came in to have a moan about this.
As we're going on holiday I decided to put the washer on for a service wash, so I bung in some soda crystals and some Sainsbo's concentrated non bio liquid.
20 mins later the foam is up to the brim and I have to throw in some fabric conditioner to stop it coming out of the drawer.
That bloody stuff is a nightmare, I got it as a substitution. We live in a soft water area so I generally use the smallest volume of liquid advised and every time I use that it pisses all over the bloody floor!
Going in the bin now.

As an aside, this chemist's day job involves using phosphonates to bind calcium & barium.

[SteveC]

Reminds me of the first time I washed my hair in the shower at uni in Manchester. The water there was so much softer then I was used to that it felt that I was standing in foam up to my knees.

[cygnet]

I like Bio-D purely on the grounds that, according to what someone told me at least, it's made in Hull. I have fond memories of childhood visits to cousins and people in Hull. Though I don't actually remember anything of the city itself.

It's got cycle infrastructure and cream telephone boxes and a massive bridge to nowhere in particular and a peculiar leisure centre with no drinking water.

DOYC is it really only 6 years since Hull was the UK City of Culture?

"One vowel from Hell" although my parents (they fuck you up you know  ) did their best to improve that

Lorenzo's Oil came out of CREDA/S&M in Hull not surprisingly they can do good stuff with chemicals.