Author Topic: Free maps for Garmin (Read 193813 times)

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #150 on:** 18 January, 2009, 08:20:54 pm »

I have a gpx here that is 31 miles long

When I used mapsource to suck the track log off the unit (the serial to USB thingy is on order) I was pleased to note that although I went out without a map, just localish knowledge, my track is over the top of every single road in mapsource

I didn't miss any

Right. Time to work out how to upload it.

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #151 on:** 18 January, 2009, 08:22:27 pm »

Quote from: frankly frankie on 18 January, 2009, 05:42:33 pm

Congrats on your success so far. Just backtracking a bit ...

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 18 January, 2009, 12:48:54 am
the dos window that mapsettoolkit popped up eventually scrolled lots of errors through it (which I didn't get a chance to note down as the window then closed).

Are you sure they were errors then.
A load of scrolling text in the DOS window, which then closes, is normal.

Definitely errors.

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #152 on:** 18 January, 2009, 10:00:13 pm »

Ok, I'm really struggling now

I think I might just give up and leave this area unmapped.

I've uploaded the gpx and been told it's there. On the map screen I see nothing.

I've opened josm and downloaded from osm. I can see the original maps (which I really suspect are imported from other maps) and lots of dots that relate to my cycling.

However, despite trawling through the help files, I can't work out what the hell I'm supposed to be doing or how to turn all my dots into a road. I've tried potlatch but I don't get any of my dots, I just see the existing roads that are in the wrong place.

Quote from: tonycollinet on 18 January, 2009, 07:28:41 pm

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 18 January, 2009, 03:54:02 am
Right. Final question for tonight.

Looking at the OSM site, it seems that Southend is mapped but only up to the boundary link. It has made me wonder where the mapping has come from as outside of Southend it looks like a standard cheap road atlas so was a base map loaded from somewhere?

If you go into the potlatch editor (which is the one you get to when logged in and you click the edit tab on the website), you can click a route, and then press H (capital) for history. This gives the name of the person who edited it.

As pointed out above - if traced from a base map, there should be a source reference.

The source for the A13 seems to say it's a josm download, not npe. But the name's wrong. I've used potlatch to change the name. The relevant points are STILL named as "London Road" in the xml, but also named as "Kiln Road" in another area of the XML. How do I delete the "London Road" name off the wrong points?

Also, the original maps aren't under the main roads I cycled (I noticed this on the GPS when I rode it). I can see that my OpenStreetMap screen is still trying to load data from yahooapis.com - which is the same as I see in the other mapping applications, so is this just sucked in from them instead of being properly uploaded?

tonycollinet · « **Reply #153 on:** 18 January, 2009, 10:05:26 pm »

In potlatch - you have to type G (or shift G) to get the gps traces to show.

Worth looking at the potlatch primer
Potlatch/Primer - OpenStreetMap

JonBuoy · « **Reply #154 on:** 18 January, 2009, 10:11:38 pm »

I just uploaded my gpx trace then clicked on the edit button. When the Edit screen fired up (potlatch) there was the option to convert the gps track to ways for editing. This converts the whole track and you can then go in and split it into separate roads and attach them to their neighbours as required.

I had a look at JOSM but it all seemed a bit too clever for me.

andygates · « **Reply #155 on:** 18 January, 2009, 10:12:12 pm »

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 18 January, 2009, 10:00:13 pm

The relevant points are STILL named as "London Road" in the xml, but also named as "Kiln Road" in another area of the XML. How do I delete the "London Road" name off the wrong points?

Decide where London Road becomes Kiln Road. Select that node using the "Hand on node" tool (second down, under the magnifying glass) and the use Tools > Split Way to break the road into two separate parts.

Then select the way (by clicking on the line instead of the nodes) and over on the right, there's a list of Properties. Select and edit the "name" one.

(If there isn't a node in the right place for the break, insert one using the next tool down, Draw Nodes: click in the line and it'll insert a node there. Hit [ESC] to stop drawing more nodes, then use the select node tool to move it to the right place and then split it as described above)

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #156 on:** 18 January, 2009, 10:45:53 pm »

Thanks Andy. I think I managed that in potlatch. Annoyingly all the tags fell off Kiln Road other than the name so I had to go back in and edit it to put them all back on.

Now, with regards to the gpx track I uploaded earlier, it's a complete loop up and down many roads that did not previously exist. The potlatch walkthrough is taking me some time, and I keep fucking it up in play mode.

Would it be bad practice to just "convert to track" as per JonBouy's process (oh, and thanks TonyCollinet for telling me to press "G") and then spend the course of this week at work doing minor edits to remove the duplicates (when I rode some roads two or three times) and also to split the whole track into individual roads?

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #157 on:** 18 January, 2009, 10:59:44 pm »

Another question

It seems my GPS is pretty accurate and I was on a bicycle. Therefore each road I went down in one direction then returned in the other direction has resulted in me mapping two lines, one either side of the road. How do regular users choose which one to use? (I'm using potlatch now, josm is too complicated)

andygates · « **Reply #158 on:** 18 January, 2009, 11:03:26 pm »

It would be better form to leave the track up, and trace one or two roads as you go, rather than putting them up wrong, and correcting them later. And if you're lucky, a wikifaerie might do it for you (I've got one, called Ilikecats, who's wrestling with me for ultimate dominance of, er, Crediton).

When I have several tracks, I guesstimate a line between them. That gives a decent average. If the tracks are only about 5-10m apart then that's both sides of the road!

Doing it by hand means you can make executive decisions where the trace looks a bit shonky, too (like today's hike in the woods, where the cover meant that my accuracy came and went).

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #159 on:** 18 January, 2009, 11:22:59 pm »

Well I don't know what I'm doing now

I think I have a track up there, but the edit stuff is changing all the time $:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

If you were a wikifaerie in this area (near the car park I started at), what can you see at the moment? Is "Dark Lane" labelled? Is the car park labelled?

JonBuoy · « **Reply #160 on:** 18 January, 2009, 11:26:20 pm »

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 18 January, 2009, 10:45:53 pm

Would it be bad practice to just "convert to track" as per JonBouy's process (oh, and thanks TonyCollinet for telling me to press "G") and then spend the course of this week at work doing minor edits to remove the duplicates (when I rode some roads two or three times) and also to split the whole track into individual roads?

I am not sure that I fully understand the question but...when you "convert to track" in Potlatch the information isn't immediately entered into the OSM database. You can fiddle around with the snippets of route that you have and only 'unlock' them when you are happy with them - I think.

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #161 on:** 18 January, 2009, 11:39:49 pm »

That's what I understood too...

But I seem to be just in an edit screen now, without the option to unlock.

JonBuoy · « **Reply #162 on:** 18 January, 2009, 11:40:11 pm »

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 18 January, 2009, 11:22:59 pm

Well I don't know what I'm doing now

I think I have a track up there, but the edit stuff is changing all the time $:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

If you were a wikifaerie in this area (near the car park I started at), what can you see at the moment? Is "Dark Lane" labelled? Is the car park labelled?

Dark Lane has not yet been rendered on the normal map (Wednesday evenings rings a bell for this) but is visible and labelled as Dark Lane if I go into edit mode. The carpark at the entrance to Dark Lane is also visible in edit mode and is labelled as such.

My you have been busy today - did you get dizzy ?

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #163 on:** 19 January, 2009, 12:01:34 am »

The hardest thing, bearing in mind I went out without a map, was remembering where I'd been and which roads I'd turned left/right etc in and therefore missed a link back to one I'd already been on. A road I'd need to revisit. The relief, when I loaded that lot into mapsource and saw I'd missed nothing, was amazing.

I had a plan of doing the mapping in blocks. The next one is south of the area I've done, filling in between there and the A13. I have just found a comment on one tag in the editing that the maps in there HAVE come from NPE

I'd guessed as much.

ps, is the user name geeky enough

I'm amazed it hadn't already been taken.

JonBuoy · « **Reply #164 on:** 19 January, 2009, 07:03:10 am »

The username is pretty geektastic and I am pleased to report that I had to Google for it to understand why.

Looking at 'your' area in Potlatch most of your GPS track appears to be there as a couple of unnamed OSM objects. I guess that that is why you couldn't unlock it - it already was and is in the database awaiting rendering.

I also noticed that some of the roads that you have inserted don't actually connect to others - they are merely split off track segments from your GPS. An example is the southern end of Grasmere Road.

I hope that the feedback is appreciated !

inc · « **Reply #165 on:** 19 January, 2009, 09:07:11 am »

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 19 January, 2009, 12:01:34 am

The hardest thing, bearing in mind I went out without a map, was remembering where I'd been and which roads I'd turned left/right etc

There are some tutorials here that may be some help steve - map, osm, mapping, newbie, beginner, maps, openstreetmap, wiki, all, world, potlatch, GPS, gpsbabel, gpx, josm

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #166 on:** 19 January, 2009, 10:10:06 am »

Quote from: JonBuoy on 19 January, 2009, 07:03:10 am

The username is pretty geektastic and I am pleased to report that I had to Google for it to understand why.

Looking at 'your' area in Potlatch most of your GPS track appears to be there as a couple of unnamed OSM objects. I guess that that is why you couldn't unlock it - it already was and is in the database awaiting rendering.

I also noticed that some of the roads that you have inserted don't actually connect to others - they are merely split off track segments from your GPS. An example is the southern end of Grasmere Road.

I hope that the feedback is appreciated !

Feedback is appreciated.

Southern end of Grasmere is a classic. Way 29076717 was already in there, but is further north than my GPS trace. On my trace you can see both sides of the road as I cycled both ways along there. Do I move the existing way south to meet my trace, and Grasmere Road, then name it? (That's what I was intending to do which is why the Grasmere Road goes to where it does).

David Martin · « **Reply #167 on:** 19 January, 2009, 10:36:16 am »

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 19 January, 2009, 10:10:06 am

Quote from: JonBuoy on 19 January, 2009, 07:03:10 am
The username is pretty geektastic and I am pleased to report that I had to Google for it to understand why.

Looking at 'your' area in Potlatch most of your GPS track appears to be there as a couple of unnamed OSM objects. I guess that that is why you couldn't unlock it - it already was and is in the database awaiting rendering.

I also noticed that some of the roads that you have inserted don't actually connect to others - they are merely split off track segments from your GPS. An example is the southern end of Grasmere Road.

I hope that the feedback is appreciated !

Feedback is appreciated.

Southern end of Grasmere is a classic. Way 29076717 was already in there, but is further north than my GPS trace. On my trace you can see both sides of the road as I cycled both ways along there. Do I move the existing way south to meet my trace, and Grasmere Road, then name it? (That's what I was intending to do which is why the Grasmere Road goes to where it does).

This is an interesting problem. There is a road near me that I rode on Saturday. My GPS trace, and the GPS trace on which the road is built differ markedly at certain points.

Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that my GPS is perfect (I know it isn't) but it would be nice to have some kind of resolution mechanism. I know that my GPS seems to fail occasionally - maybe having it in the same pocket as my phone doesn't help (it is a bluetooth GPS thingy and the phone records the waypoints.)

This could be an excuse for an upgrade to a Garmin Legend Hcx

..d

frankly frankie · « **Reply #168 on:** 19 January, 2009, 10:47:57 am »

I get most of the same problems you seem to be having Nutty, in Potlach. Various edit controls seem to come and go in a seeming random fashion, and I haven't yet seen the option to convert a track to a way. It never occurred to me that I was supposed to trace over it!! (Where's that crappy graphics tablet I bought a while back)

Anyway ...

Quote from: nuttycyclist on 18 January, 2009, 08:22:27 pm

Quote from: frankly frankie on 18 January, 2009, 05:42:33 pm
Are you sure they were errors then.
Definitely errors.

In MapSetToolkit, there's a tickbox for 'Blank overview maps' - I'm not sure what it does or even whether 'blank' is an adjective or a verb.
On my (very trailing-edge) computer leaving it unticked causes the process to hang, I only get results with it ticked.

Also, I haven't bothered much with creating a TYP file - its only there to style the maps and make them look pretty, and all that is surplus to requirements as far as I'm concerned - the prettiness doesn't seem to extend to the GPS display. So I just leave the 'TYP files' line blank, it works fine without. If you do want a TYP file, the text file to compile has to have a 8.3 char filename or you get errors.

PS a successful process ends with the charming message 'Convert Termined'

Richard Fairhurst · « **Reply #169 on:** 19 January, 2009, 11:49:38 am »

Frankie - to get the magic 'Convert to track' button in Potlatch, you need to go to the GPS Traces listing, then click 'edit' next to the track in question - not the tab at the top of the page. You'll then see a 'Track' button once it's loaded.

You can then chop and change to your heart's desire. I usually remove any stray points or clumps where I stopped, add connections to neighbouring roads, and cut and delete any places where I've gone over the same ground twice.

Finally, select the red track and click the little padlock to 'unlock' it (bottom left). When you deselect it'll be uploaded as usual.

If it doesn't let you unlock, it'll be because the way is too long (200+ points) - you'll get a little message warning you if this is the case. In that case, just split the way into two individual bits and unlock each one.

But, all of that said, if you're doing a housing estate with lots and lots of little connections, I wouldn't bother with any of this: I'd trace over it all manually. The automated track convert is great for long minor roads (I couldn't have mapped the Pennine Cycleway without it), but with all the splitting and tidying, it's easier just to draw each road yourself for a complicated estate.

I wouldn't worry unduly about the track being on one side of a (single-carriageway) road or another: I guess if you were super-conscientious you could cycle it five times on each side to average out any GPS error, but I'm usually happy with just one try. Personally I figure I'm creating something at the precision level of (say) an A-Z or an Explorer map - the super-precise stuff I leave for the Germans who seem to love mapping every individual building.

Finally Nutty (incidentally, love the nickname) - yahooapis.com is just used for the satellite imagery backdrop, which we have permission from Yahoo to trace over, but whose coverage is restricted pretty much to the big cities - bizarrely London and Salisbury are in there but Birmingham isn't. You can stop Potlatch from looking for it by choosing a different background with the little preferences window ('tick' icon, bottom left).

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #170 on:** 19 January, 2009, 11:59:55 am »

Quote from: Richard Fairhurst on 19 January, 2009, 11:49:38 am

...
Finally Nutty (incidentally, love the nickname) - yahooapis.com is just used for the satellite imagery backdrop, which we have permission from Yahoo to trace over, but whose coverage is restricted pretty much to the big cities - bizarrely London and Salisbury are in there but Birmingham isn't. You can stop Potlatch from looking for it by choosing a different background with the little preferences window ('tick' icon, bottom left).

After getting seasick watching that showmedo video (are all MACs like that, or is it just how he filmed it?) I did wonder whether there was any point in going for the GPS and mapping the area, or whether I could just sit here at work in a conference call and click away. The warning all over the site are to not copy and to just use points where you've been.

The pros of copying yahoo images are that it's easy. The cons are that it's really bad in this area

Richard Fairhurst · « **Reply #171 on:** 19 January, 2009, 12:14:30 pm »

Well, you can't get the street names, one-way restrictions and stuff like that from the aerial imagery (and like you say, the coverage is rubbish in most places) - you can only trace the grid. So someone will have to cycle it sooner or later to get the names.

I guess the advantage is that, if you've traced the outline from the imagery, you could just note down the name at the end of the road and not cycle up it. Though the likelihood of Yahoo ever getting any imagery out here in the sticks is pretty minimal anyway...

David Martin · « **Reply #172 on:** 19 January, 2009, 01:47:12 pm »

Quote from: Richard Fairhurst on 19 January, 2009, 12:14:30 pm

Well, you can't get the street names, one-way restrictions and stuff like that from the aerial imagery (and like you say, the coverage is rubbish in most places) - you can only trace the grid. So someone will have to cycle it sooner or later to get the names.

I guess the advantage is that, if you've traced the outline from the imagery, you could just note down the name at the end of the road and not cycle up it. Though the likelihood of Yahoo ever getting any imagery out here in the sticks is pretty minimal anyway...

Most of Dundee was done by tracing the Yahoo imagery. I am slowly editing it to get street names right, adding in footpaths etc.
There are strong shadows on the aerial imagery that seem to obscure many of the paths.

I must try that edit GPS option.
..d

frankly frankie · « **Reply #173 on:** 19 January, 2009, 02:48:06 pm »

Quote from: Richard Fairhurst on 19 January, 2009, 11:49:38 am

Frankie - to get the magic 'Convert to track' button in Potlatch, you need to go to the GPS Traces listing, then click 'edit' next to the track in question - not the tab at the top of the page. You'll then see a 'Track' button once it's loaded.

Thanks - I thought that's what I did, but anyway I'll certainly give it another go.
[edit] Found it!
Look out for a short section of cyclepath (currently missing) along the canal between Ouistreham and Caen.
~~Is it a Java thing perhaps? Is one browser better for this than another? I'm using Firefox at present.~~
I was also finding the tagging a bit difficult but I found the 'pick up tags from previously selected way' which is a helpful shortcut.
How would you tag a 'POI' which is just that - for example, a free-standing sculpture or statue by the wayside?

andygates · « **Reply #174 on:** 19 January, 2009, 03:55:22 pm »

A node with tourism=sculpture or tourism=artwork

See: Key:tourism - OpenStreetMap

How would you go about tagging a campus site? I have one, where the whole site is the hospital, but there are many buildings on site. I'd like to name the buildings so they're labelled. And at least one thing needs to be amenity=hospital so that it shows in the POI.

What I don't want is for the campus, main building and POI all to appear with "RDE Hospital" in 'em, as that would be confusing...