Author Topic: Corpus Christi Trimble  (Read 26331 times)

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #75 on: 25 February, 2009, 10:06:45 am »
In answer to your first bit, the whole of the recording of human history and knowledge is contained within books, apart from the last few years, which is recorded digitally, and it's therefore harder to ind the good bits amongst the trash.

And of course I didn't say any such thing as you are suggesting in your last sentence. I observed that the funding levels were different, and until I googled I didn't realise how vastly different.

In my daughter's case, although her degree was in history, her special studies overlapped very considerably with social anthropology, which is definitely a science (she was studying the effect of conquistadors' religion on the Peruvian tribes, something which has considerable parallels in modern middle-eastern politics). I'd suggest that, at risk of going wildly off topic, that we distinguish too rigidly between science and arts subjects. There's an awful lot of book reading in degrees like that.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

αdαmsκι

  • Instagram @ucfaaay Strava @ucfaaay
  • Look haggard. It sells.
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #76 on: 25 February, 2009, 10:17:09 am »
Bluebottle, whom you quote, has stated that of the "good few" science PhDs at his place, he "can't think of any of them who are funded by the research councils" i.e. they are presumably funded by industry

Sorry, but no. Just because someone doing a science PhD isn't funded by a research council, doesn't automatically mean they are funded by big industry. Case in point, I wasn't funded by a research council & instead my money came from the Dept. as I was a teaching assiant. At any one time the Dept. has have four TAs, two of whom are doing human geography stuff & two of whom are doing physical / science type geography & that seems pretty fair. The guy I did fieldwork with in China was funded by the British Council. One of the Chinese students in our research group is funded by a Dorothy Hodgkins award. OK, so one of the PhD students in our group is funded by the consultancy arm of our research group, but it's hardly big business & is basically a spin off for the research group to make some cash. Elsewhere, I know people who are funded by EU projects, the Wellcome Trust, various research councils but no one I can think of is funded by so-called big business.  People do have CASE studentship. For the people from my research group that means they are linked to the labs at the British Geological Survey in Keyworth, Notts. This is basically a research lab, so it's an outside group but it's certainly not industry.   

I guess people are funded by big businesses, but I don't know anyone for who that's the case.

*Goes back to editing his thesis*

PS: To be clear, I don't have an issues with people doing history etc., but I think the idea that anyone in science who isn't research council funded is therefore getting more from industry is incorrect.
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #77 on: 25 February, 2009, 11:14:42 am »
She was saying on the radio this am. that all the attention she's getting from the media etc is essentially because she’s female, the implication being AFAICS that ‘fuss’ especially from some quarters is sexist, and if she was male it would not have been the same.

I saw that too.  We need to encourage smart women, to get them out of the kitchen and into the bedroom.

You Australians!
It is simpler than it looks.

her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #78 on: 25 February, 2009, 02:41:00 pm »
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.

There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?

What's the point in reading books at all? What's your opinion on people who study English?

 :thumbsup: Reading is not a hobby, it has its place in all aspect of lives. I manage a small library in an engineering firm but we also have books on conservation and urban design. All of these books inform on our projects at work. We read these books to make the projects go forward. You have to be careful about how you describe 'reading' as it features in all aspects of our lives.

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #79 on: 25 February, 2009, 02:53:39 pm »
Erm, I have to read a lot.  Mainly textbooks and fairly dry academic papers.
Reading literature novels and history, for me, is a hobby.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #80 on: 25 February, 2009, 02:57:59 pm »
You'll be telling me next that scientists are of greater value to society than historians.

There's a world of difference between history and Latin literature.
Books that haven't been read for hundreds of years being analysed for what purpose?

Erm, I have to read a lot.  Mainly textbooks and fairly dry academic papers.
Reading literature novels and history, for me, is a hobby.

 :)
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #81 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:08:09 pm »
Erm, I have to read a lot.  Mainly textbooks and fairly dry academic papers.
Reading literature novels and history, for me, is a hobby.

Umm..so have I, having just handed in my Masters. Reading history, for us at our workplace, is part of what drives our projects. Same with trade literature, where our engineers have to consult products and quote them in their specifications. It's not leisure. You may see it as leisure in your own personal capacity, for us its part of our real working lives.

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #82 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:10:22 pm »
Okay, okay, I shouldn't have picked history :).  I don't analyse history books.  For me, it fits into the "hobby" classification but you can analyse history in a way that is useful for the current time.

Still, I don't see the point in analysing Bronte, Austin, Dickens or Latin literature, which is where we started.

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #83 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:20:43 pm »
My mate works with her Dad, and he's a very nice chap. Do I get any points for that?

Or the very least… a starter for 10?
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #84 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:20:51 pm »
Okay, okay, I shouldn't have picked history :).  I don't analyse history books.  For me, it fits into the "hobby" classification but you can analyse history in a way that is useful for the current time.

Still, I don't see the point in analysing Bronte, Austin, Dickens or Latin literature, which is where we started.

You'd get on well with Ms Manotea the elder. She's taking a mock A level English paper this afternoon on Jane Austen, and if all goes well she'll be reading Classics in September. It may be that a couple of years hence you'll be discussing Murrey Edwards Manotea!

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #85 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:21:30 pm »
If history is important, why is what historical figures wrote unimportant?

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #86 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:22:54 pm »
Look, am I getting points or what!!!  >:(
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #87 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:25:06 pm »
If history is important, why is what historical figures wrote unimportant?
Are Bronte(s), Dickens and Austen historical figures?  They're no more important than any novelist working today, really.

And, Phil, have you read anything by Einstein, James Clerk Maxwell, Niels Bohr, or even Stephen Hawking?  And if not, why not?  What they wrote has proved to be far more important than anything the Bronte sisters wrote.

[edit] I'm adding Darwin and Dawkins (pre his anti-religion campaigning) to the list.

her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #88 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:32:44 pm »
Of course they are historical figures. Let's pick Dickens for example. As well as being a novelist, he was a keen diarist of the day (probably comparable to Samuel Pepys) and was seen as a very public figure, supporting many different causes. He was extremely influential in Victorian society.

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #89 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:44:00 pm »
If history is important, why is what historical figures wrote unimportant?
Are Bronte(s), Dickens and Austen historical figures?  They're no more important than any novelist working today, really.

And, Phil, have you read anything by Einstein, James Clerk Maxwell, Niels Bohr, or even Stephen Hawking?  And if not, why not?  What they wrote has proved to be far more important than anything the Bronte sisters wrote.

Yes, I've read some Einstein, a little Maxwell, and quite a lot of Hawking - and as it happens, I've read nothing by the Brontes.  But that's irrelevant really, I'm not a physicist and scholarly articles on physics pass way over my head.  Simplified explanations of their work are plenty for me. 

Have you ever read any Homer? Or Herodotus? Euripides? The impact they had on later generations, and the information they contain, is hugely valuable.  You can't really write them off as a waste of time. 

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #90 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:52:44 pm »
Read a reasonable chunk of the Iliad.  Got a little bored, especially with the language.  A simplified explanation would have been enough for me  ;)  I read a lot of Plato and Aristotle when I did a Philosophy module during my Masters.

In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"?  The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
    • Angus Bike Chain CC
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #91 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:56:44 pm »
In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"?  The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.
Information? Does it have to be all about "information".
Does knowledge not count? What about wisdom?  :-\
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #92 on: 25 February, 2009, 03:59:34 pm »
In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"?  The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.
Information? Does it have to be all about "information".
Does knowledge not count? What about wisdom?  :-\

I'm dying to ask him his views on the visual arts and music...but I shall refrain.

her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #93 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:02:06 pm »
And the knowledge from these novelists, historians and philosophers has helped shape society, as much as scientists have helped us develop technologically and culturally.

Yes, what are you talking about when it comes to information - data, technology, knowledge, wisdom?

her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #94 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:02:57 pm »
In what way is the information contained "hugely valuable"?  The information contained in the writings of the above scientists has shaped our world, for better or worse.
Information? Does it have to be all about "information".
Does knowledge not count? What about wisdom?  :-\

I'm dying to ask him his views on the visual arts and music...but I shall refrain.

 :-*

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #95 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:05:06 pm »
Hey, I didn't introduce the word "information" into this, ask Phil what he means!

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #96 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:05:44 pm »
Has Riggers got his points yet?

(I might want to claim some as well...)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #97 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:10:25 pm »
The scientific literature is historical. It crystalises understanding at a precise point in time. Following the development of an idea through it's historical context is in many ways key to understanding where the limitations are.

I find the division between the arts and the sciences to be in many ways a division between being and doing.

A scientist does. An artist is.  

What really, really, really annoys me is those who describe the division as being between the 'creatives' and the rest, implying that science is not creative. Designing a satellite is no less creative than designing a dress, or painting a picture. Learning more about the world is as creative a thing as I know. It is no more purely technical than painting is putting paint on a brush and then onto canvas.

..d





"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #98 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:11:47 pm »
I'm dying to ask him his views on the visual arts and music...but I shall refrain.

Music I "get", from classical all the way to noisy metal.  I've even read a few musicology books, and it makes sense.  Visual arts: there's stuff I like, and stuff I don't like, pretty much like everyone else.

There you go, very potted.

her_welshness: have novelists shaped society, or are they just a reflection on it?

bikenerd

Re: Corpus Christi Trimble
« Reply #99 on: 25 February, 2009, 04:13:43 pm »
Thanks David.  You've said in a more eloquent and less confrontational manner what I've been trying to for the past n pages.

All of the above is my pent up frustration at the lack of respect shown to science and scientists by the arts students I've met in my time.  ::-)