Author Topic: We know Wiggins is clean because...  (Read 7657 times)


mr endon

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2009, 11:56:59 pm »
Contador's a bit squeaky voiced. Coincidence?
You decide: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/o6oxXwBsD1U&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/o6oxXwBsD1U&rel=1</a>

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2009, 11:58:24 pm »
I have a sneaking feeling that Lance will eventually be the winner of this tour.  I just hope that Bradley is clean.

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2009, 12:03:51 am »
I'm just amazed how, if the AFLD boss is correct, riders can get hold of these new drugs that are still in testing phases at the pharma companies and still years away from release.  

Money really talks.

ChrisO

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2009, 05:02:46 am »


I don't suppose you've got the original post?

No, sorry, it was in the chat that goes with the live text commentary for each stage and it doesn't seem to be accessible after the day.

The AFLD comments are interesting too. I have more faith in them than in the UCI - too much of a conflict of interest.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2009, 11:09:26 am »
I'm just amazed how, if the AFLD boss is correct, riders can get hold of these new drugs that are still in testing phases at the pharma companies and still years away from release.  

Money really talks.

A 5 minute google search finds this link apparently selling AICAR

TRC | Product Details

Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2009, 11:33:28 am »
More post-race podium shuffling?

This sums up the whole problem I have with the TdF. Yes, as a day out it's really really exciting to watch and cheer yourself hoarse, but at home, I see no point watching it on the TV (apart from the humorous crashes). There's no defined "end" to the race: someone finishes the race, but final positions aren't decided for months until all the tests, scandals and appeals are over. It means that I can't look at the podium and say "Wow! Contador came first, Shleck second and Armstrong third." It means I think "Oh, was Sunday the last day of the cycling? Oh well, we won't know for sure who *really* won for a few months yet" and it's all a bit of an anti-climax.

 :-\
Have you seen my blog? It has words. And pictures! http://ablogofallthingskathy.blogspot.com/

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2009, 01:24:28 pm »
I'm just amazed how, if the AFLD boss is correct, riders can get hold of these new drugs that are still in testing phases at the pharma companies and still years away from release.  

Money really talks.

A 5 minute google search finds this link apparently selling AICAR

TRC | Product Details



Not thinking so much in terms of that, but Hematide

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2009, 01:41:33 pm »

He's the best puncher on the Tour.
He gave that twat a nice dig in the ribs.

Nice one Wiggo.  :thumbsup:
They're not fans, just moronic twats.

What happened?

About 2k from the top when he was hanging on for dear life, an idiot ran out in front of him.
Luckily it never broke his rhythm. But Wiggo swung at the pleb and caught him.
This was on the live filming and it was in the background of the filming - as the camera was on
the others. I just glimpsed it quite by chance.
It was omitted from the highlights.
I think the French police have the right attitude to this. IIRC it's something like - "A cyclist punched you? How did you get within his reach? Piss off before we think of something to arrest you for."
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2009, 09:55:58 pm »
This may be, in fact probably is, total bollocks but...

Yep. Total and utter sloblock.

d.

gonzo

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2009, 12:52:39 pm »
Wiggins blood profiles from the last year now released. He's working on getting data since 2003 published according to Twitter.

Does this make him the first athlete to voluntarily do so?

Who's going to follow his example?

edit - Nope, Armstrong's been doing it too.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2009, 02:15:21 pm »
I have just accepted that that in my favorite sports there is some sort of drug use.

Be it energy drink/bars, food that gives you more carbs pr kg than other stuff, etc etc etc. All the stuff that they eat has been made to make them less dehydrated, gives them a boost, sugar rush, run for longer or what ever it does to make them win. It is all chemicals and drugs if you look at it that way :)

And they also taking pain killers to cover for the aches and pains, that for us others would have us off the bike, playing field much much earlier. Ain't that drug use?

And then there is the plain old stubbornness that makes them run, ride or jump tru' the pain barrier or over the "I can't be arsed" wall. Which when I see that wall, I stop and have a rest, not pot of energy stuf and pain killers and go come on you old git you just gotta.

If someone wants to cheat they will cheat and will find a loop hole in the system being that with or without the passport.

My favorite drugs atm is gummy bears *) and chocolate milk, gets me up and over Col d'Aspin :) Though the pro's gets up and over in 3rd of that time, but hey I'm happy I had a god ride.

*) just look at the E number in that, if that is not classified as drugs then I don't know what drugs is.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
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Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2009, 02:49:36 pm »
It is all chemicals and drugs if you look at it that way :)

Nah, you are wrong

EPO alters the thickness of your blood in quite a radical way.  This is quite dangerous and has caused several deaths.  It gives a significant advantage in power.
Many of the other hormone products they use are altering the body to recover too quickly and have potential side effects that are pretty bad

You can't compare stuff like that to taking a neurophen, a couple of expressos, or a mars bar.
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2009, 02:52:22 pm »
oops my bad, but hey what do I know, I just like to ride my bike

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2009, 03:39:56 pm »
Be it energy drink/bars, food that gives you more carbs pr kg than other stuff, etc etc etc.

Not to mention the equipment - lighter, more aerodynamic bikes, skinsuits, aero helmets, etc.

And as for the better training methods they use these days...  ;)

d.

ChrisO

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2009, 05:45:48 pm »
Be it energy drink/bars, food that gives you more carbs pr kg than other stuff, etc etc etc.

Not to mention the equipment - lighter, more aerodynamic bikes, skinsuits, aero helmets, etc.


But it's quite simple. That stuff is allowed and the other stuff isn't.

Various things may well enhance their performance - the prohibition is not on getting better or doing things better, it is on specific and named drugs.


citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2009, 07:49:36 pm »
But it's quite simple. That stuff is allowed and the other stuff isn't.

Well, you can look at it in those black and white terms but they keep changing the rules about what equipment is and isn't allowed, and the arms race in bike building is always one step ahead of the regulators in much the same way that the drugs labs are always one step ahead of the testers.

Just look at swimming - some of the new hi-tech swimsuits aren't technically illegal but does that mean it's entirely fair for swimmers to use them? It's a grey area, and one that has often affected cycling too.

Of course, there are other reasons for banning "performance enhancing" drugs, such as the health implications that Vorsprung mentions, but surely the main aim of the regulations of any competitive sport, besides keeping the competitors alive and safe, is to ensure a reasonably level playing field?

d.

gonzo

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2009, 07:53:26 pm »
Well, you can look at it in those black and white terms but they keep changing the rules about what equipment is and isn't allowed, and the arms race in bike building is always one step ahead of the regulators in much the same way that the drugs labs are always one step ahead of the testers.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. The UCI like banning stuff that's been used for a long time or suddenly re-interpreting a rule.

By your definition, is it unfair that some riders have more time to train than others?

There has to be a line somewhere or they wouldn't even be on bikes!

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2009, 10:58:38 pm »
By your definition, is it unfair that some riders have more time to train than others?

There has to be a line somewhere or they wouldn't even be on bikes!

Yeah, of course, it's all about drawing lines and making sometimes fairly arbitrary decisions. If I wanted to push the argument to ridiculous extremes, I could say that Team GB had an unfair advantage in the Olympics because they had Brailsford coaching them. But that would be silly.

Thing is, sportspeople are always looking for ways to get a competitive advantage over their rivals, whether it be within the rules or - if they think they can get away with it - by breaking the rules. There are lots of aids to improving performance that aren't banned, so why are "performance enhancing" drugs banned? It's not necessarily because they enhance performance - as Chris said, the prohibition is not on getting better or doing things better - but those are the reasons for taking drugs, so the question of which aids to performance are considered fair and which aren't is very relevant to the point Woolly was making.

So how do you decide where to draw the line? Besides the health issues, you have to weigh up the ethical arguments and make moral decisions based on whatever notions of fairness and sporting ethics you are guided by.

d.

ChrisO

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2009, 05:54:56 pm »
Smutchin your point is reasonable if we are talking about what's fair - and that's probably how FINA got into such a mess over the swimsuits and the UCI over the Hour record.

But when it comes to drugs there is a list of substances which are banned.

I didn't mean it was quite simple morally - I meant it was quite simple factually.

It's not a loophole, it's not a grey area. Nobody who takes this stuff can be in any doubt that they are quite simply cheating the rules.

Someone who uses a new swimsuit or food or helmet or can afford to train at altitude etc might choose to wrestle with their inner Corinthian spirit but that's a different argument altogether and there's no point introducing it to the drugs discussion in my view.