The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)

[T42]

@benborp: Sympathies, I hope it gets sorted PDQ.

[benborp]

Thanks for the concern. I now have access to a friend with phone, London address and emotional support available throughout however long this  takes. Was finally allowed to submit application for a replacement passport just now and will see if the passport office is able to bump the application from the current process to something a little more express. There were hints that something might be worked out sooner rather than later - but no guarantees.

[Cudzoziemiec]

There is a process to get a passport within a few hours using a paper form but it's obviously spendy, no idea if it works Saturdays and apart from Newport, I don't know where (ie might not be actually London).

[benborp]

Yes, it's a paper form used for making an application in person that costs about £187. But you must have a mobile phone in order to make the initial appointment. You must also have a mobile phone number on which they can contact you. There is an approximate two hour window of opportunity for the urgent passport application on Saturday mornings at the London office.

I have paid for this urgent service yet it might still be a week before I get the passport. The staff have been pulling out the stops in order to get me into the system somehow and hopefully a passport out the other end.

[Davef]

They say a week but it is often much quicker - my daughters one arrived after 2 days.


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[Cudzoziemiec]

When I had to get a passport quickly, ISTR I went to the office (Newport) with a form and photos and left a few hours later with the passport. But that was a different situation (whereas you've been unlucky, I'd been stupid and not realised till a few weeks before we were due to fly that mine had expired) and a few years ago, though they definitely can a passport in your hands within a few hours of filling in the forms and paying the fee (ouch!).

[Davef]

That is option is not possible for lost or stolen passports. 1 week express is the fastest, but may not take a whole week.


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[Cudzoziemiec]

Look on the bright side; this means you don't have to spend several hours wandering round Newport looking for something to do. 

[Kim]

Yes, it's a paper form used for making an application in person that costs about £187. But you must have a mobile phone in order to make the initial appointment. You must also have a mobile phone number on which they can contact you.

If you can afford (I use the term loosely) £187 for a passport, Shirley you can afford a tenner for a burner phone?

[Davef]

Yes, it's a paper form used for making an application in person that costs about £187. But you must have a mobile phone in order to make the initial appointment. You must also have a mobile phone number on which they can contact you.

If you can afford (I use the term loosely) £187 for a passport, Shirley you can afford a tenner for a burner phone?

And to buy a pay as you go mobile all you need is a credit card and some ID such as a .... dammit.


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[ian]

Yes, it's a paper form used for making an application in person that costs about £187. But you must have a mobile phone in order to make the initial appointment. You must also have a mobile phone number on which they can contact you.

If you can afford (I use the term loosely) £187 for a passport, Shirley you can afford a tenner for a burner phone?

I used that service a month back and I'm pretty sure there was an option for email. It was a bit weird, they say appointment but there was no actual appointment, they simply handed over a new passport.

[pcolbeck]

What the hell is a "footway"? Did everyone agree to abolish the word "footpath" and not tell me?

Twice recently I have seen council triangular warning signs saying "footway closed".

[SteveC]

I think footway is used because in highway engineering 'pavement' means the whole paved area, so the roadway as well as the footway, but this being YACF, an expert will be along shortly to correct or confirm. 

[Regulator]

What the hell is a "footway"? Did everyone agree to abolish the word "footpath" and not tell me?

Twice recently I have seen council triangular warning signs saying "footway closed".

Basically, a footway is the part of the highway that is restricted to pedestrians (the carriageway being open to both vehicles and pedestrians), i.e. the pavement. 

A footpath is a thoroughfare restricted to pedestrians away from the highway. 

[Giraffe]

AIUI the highway has up to 3 components:
carriageway, usually called road
footway, usually called pavement (I consider pavement to be paved with slabs or blocks; asphalt isn't paving) or footpath (footpath can be public (the highway isn't public, i.e. no right of way), permitted (open to public by permission of the owner) or private)
verge

Double yellow lines apply to the highway, so parking on the footway is still an offence but no action taken as it doesn't inconvenience motons.

[Davef]

Inspired by this I visited legislation.gov.uk (it is in my favourites).

Looking at the definitions at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/329 as well as a definition of footway and footpath

 I am surprised to see :-

A) I appear to have no right of way on the carriageway without a vehicle

B) I appear to have no right of way on bridleway on a bicycle


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[Regulator]

Inspired by this I visited legislation.gov.uk (it is in my favourites).

Looking at the definitions at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/329 as well as a definition of footway and footpath

 I am surprised to see :-

A) I appear to have no right of way on the carriageway without a vehicle

B) I appear to have no right of way on bridleway on a bicycle


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You're misreading the definitions, which have to be taken in context (which may also mean looking at other legislation):

a) you have right of way on a carriageway unless you are specifically excluded (e.g. motorways and certain A roads) as the carriageway is part of the highway and pedestrians have right of way on highways.  The Highway Code reflects this in the advice given to/rules for pedestrians.

b) you have the right to cycle on a bridleway.  This was established in s.30 of the Countryside Act 1968.  You are allowed to cycle on restricted byways courtesy of s. 48 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000.

[Regulator]

AIUI the highway has up to 3 components:
carriageway, usually called road
footway, usually called pavement (I consider pavement to be paved with slabs or blocks; asphalt isn't paving) or footpath (footpath can be public (the highway isn't public, i.e. no right of way), permitted (open to public by permission of the owner) or private)
verge

Double yellow lines apply to the highway, so parking on the footway is still an offence but no action taken as it doesn't inconvenience motons.

You're conflating lots of things...

Footway = path restricted to pedestrians alongside a highway.
Footpath = path restricted to pedestrians away from a highway.

All parts of highways (carriageway, footways and verges) are public and, unless specifically restricted (e.g. motorways and certain A roads), pedestrians, horse riders, cyclists, and non-mechanically propelled vehicles do have right of way.  Mechanically propelled vehicles are on highways 'by permission' which is why they have to be registered, insured, and their drivers licensed.

[Regulator]

Guess which councillor sits on the highways sub-committee... 

[Davef]

A footpath is a highway


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[ian]

I'm sure they're all places you can park your car if 'there's nowhere else to park' or they 'are just going to be a minute.'

hth.

[Regulator]

A footpath is a highway


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AIUI the highway has up to 3 components:
carriageway, usually called road
footway, usually called pavement (I consider pavement to be paved with slabs or blocks; asphalt isn't paving) or footpath (footpath can be public (the highway isn't public, i.e. no right of way), permitted (open to public by permission of the owner) or private)
verge

Double yellow lines apply to the highway, so parking on the footway is still an offence but no action taken as it doesn't inconvenience motons.

You're conflating lots of things...

Footway = path restricted to pedestrians alongside a highway.
Footpath = path restricted to pedestrians away from a highway.

All parts of highways (carriageway, footways and verges) are public and, unless specifically restricted (e.g. motorways and certain A roads), pedestrians, horse riders, cyclists, and non-mechanically propelled vehicles do have right of way.  Mechanically propelled vehicles are on highways 'by permission' which is why they have to be registered, insured, and their drivers licensed.

Sorry - I should have said carriageway rather than highway.

Footway = path restricted to pedestrians alongside a carriageway
Footpath = path restricted to pedestrians away from a carriageway.

as defined in s. 329 Highways Act 1980:

“footpath” means a highway over which the public have a right of way on foot only, not being a footway;
“footway” means a way comprised in a highway which also comprises a carriageway, being a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only;

[Davef]

Much better. I still think it odd the definition of bridleway in section 329 of 1980 highways act excludes the rights given in the earlier 1968 countryside act. I don’t think this is down to me misreading it. I think this is perhaps a drafting error. That pedestrians have a right to use highways or the advice given in the Highway Code does not contradict the interpretation that where that highway is separated into a footway and a carriageway that the right to use the carriageway is for vehicles though I suppose it would have the word “only”


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[Regulator]

Much better. I still think it odd the definition of bridleway in section 329 of 1980 highways act excludes the rights given in the earlier 1968 countryside act. I don’t think this is down to me misreading it. I think this is perhaps a drafting error. That pedestrians have a right to use highways or the advice given in the Highway Code does not contradict the interpretation that where that highway is separated into a footway and a carriageway that the right to use the carriageway is for vehicles though I suppose it would have the word “only”


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It's irrelevant.  One piece of legislation doesn't necessarily negate or amend the provisions of another - unless it specifically states that it does.  Interpretation provisions also only apply to the relevant piece of legislation (hence "In this Act, except where the context otherwise requires") unless they are specifically enacted to apply to other legislation, e.g. the Interpretation Act 1978.

[Davef]

In my waters where two acts appear to contradict one another, the newer one wins (or at the very least the definition within the act applies to that act over and above any previous definition). Luckily the wildlife and countryside act 1981 section 66 clarifies things. I don't recall cycling on any bridleways during the intervening months of ambiguity so will sleep easily again.