Slight run in with the local chain gang.

[gonzo]

Probably I'm not explaining well either

Their line moved from the centre of the road to left of the (3 - 4 lane)  road, my line was from about 6 feet from the left edge of the road to about 1 foot away. Since they were racing on roads shared with other users they should have been more sensitive to the fact that there were non-racers around who might not know what their line should be and might not be as comfortable riding in close quarters as the racers are.

Hmmm, that's quite significantly different from what I envisaged! I agree wth you - they were being idiots!

TBH, I don't do open road bunch racing these days because I've realised that it's not really safe for anyone!

[Polar Bear]

Reminds me of an incident a few years back.   Down a quiet lane we were riding side-by-side.   A TOAB (Twat On A Bike) barged straight through the middle then proceeded to shake his fist and swear at us.

Were you so engrossed in your conversation that politely phrased requests to pass had been ignored or not even noticed? On many quiet lanes the largest available passing space is between two side by side riders.

I don't think so.   I'm not usually prone to distraction causing lack of awareness of my surroundings.   I'm even aware of (cycling) tags when I'm piloting the tandem.

[juliet]

I thought of this discussion today. Dropping down a hill, I overtook dad and two sons at some speed (maybe 20mph or so). I gave them at least a bike width, but I wondered if they found it more alarming than I had allowed.

Personally I prefer to give a couple of bike widths (i.e. plenty of room in case the rider I'm overtaking does something unexpected).  And I find it slightly nervous-making when other people pass me closer than that (unless I'm riding with someone I know well, in which case we're both aware of each other's skill levels & so forth). 

[bobb]

For those interested in the racer mentality, the simple rule amongst racers is hold your line and don't brake sharply.

I think that's the number one rule for any type of group riding, whether it's a CTC bimble with the beard brigade, Audax or any other group ride.

I don't mind riding in a group and I stick by those rules, but there's always plenty of numpty riding from others.

I was slightly annoyed a couple of years ago when a group of about 10 club riders passed me. The only thing was, they weren't really going much faster than I was. They called out a verbal warning and started to pass, but I ended up in their group 'cos like a say - they weren't going much faster. I couldn't drop back and let them go as I was pegged in on the inside from front, side and rear. I just thought it was a bit presumptuous of them that I wouldn't mind.

If I overtake someone I always do it as wide as possible and then accelerate away so I don't hold them up or annoy them by dropping straight back in front of them. That's the equivalent of overtaking another car when driving then dropping back in and maintaining the same speed you were both doing in the first place, forcing the overtaken car to ease off back to a safe distance....

[tatanab]

I thought of this discussion today. Dropping down a hill, I overtook dad and two sons at some speed (maybe 20mph or so). I gave them at least a bike width, but I wondered if they found it more alarming than I had allowed.

A bike width is only 18".  I'd say that was too close for a pass at speed with somebody you do not know.  Just think how little 18" is when you are riding at 20mph and passed by a car doing 30-40mph.  Not good is it?

For close riding, I've bumped handlebars and saddlebags with the best - but only people I know well and can trust.

[drossall]

Steady on! I wouldn't have mentioned it if I wasn't thinking about it. I'd say it was marginal, so maybe I gave them more clearance than I suggested, but I wasn't doing anything like 20mph faster than they were.

It's simply that this discussion prompts me to remember that not everyone is comfortable with other bikes around them.

[gonzo]

It's simply that this discussion prompts me to remember that not everyone is comfortable with other bikes around them.

It's also worth pointing out that it's considered good form to ask if any of you intend to sit on someone else's wheel who you happen to come across when riding. There are some people, like me, who actually particularly dislike it (the last bloke who tried ended up in a bloody heap on the floor).

[PaulF]

It's also worth pointing out that it's considered good form to ask if any of you intend to sit on someone else's wheel who you happen to come across when riding. There are some people, like me, who actually particularly dislike it (the last bloke who tried ended up in a bloody heap on the floor).

That sounds like a bit of an overreaction I'm sure a simple "please get off my wheel" would have sufficed

[gonzo]

It's also worth pointing out that it's considered good form to ask if any of you intend to sit on someone else's wheel who you happen to come across when riding. There are some people, like me, who actually particularly dislike it (the last bloke who tried ended up in a bloody heap on the floor).

That sounds like a bit of an overreaction I'm sure a simple "please get off my wheel" would have sufficed

I was in my own little world and only noticed a bundle of loose fence cabling at the last minute and just about swerved to avoid it. The bloke behind me rode straight into it. The left side of his bars stopped dead from about 20mph.

So let this be a lesson to all of you

[Panoramix]

It's also worth pointing out that it's considered good form to ask if any of you intend to sit on someone else's wheel who you happen to come across when riding. There are some people, like me, who actually particularly dislike it (the last bloke who tried ended up in a bloody heap on the floor).

I don't understand why you wouldn't want somebody to sit on your wheel. It does not slow you down and when you start to tire you can always ask him to return the favour! If he does not that is just a good excuse to rip off his legs at the next climb.

[MSeries]

It's also worth pointing out that it's considered good form to ask if any of you intend to sit on someone else's wheel who you happen to come across when riding. There are some people, like me, who actually particularly dislike it (the last bloke who tried ended up in a bloody heap on the floor).

I don't understand why you wouldn't want somebody to sit on your wheel. It does not slow you down and when you start to tire you can always ask him to return the favour! If he does not that is just a good excuse to rip off his legs at the next climb.

It's like someone tailgating in a car or walking too close behind, dangerous and creepy, and rude.

[nic]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want somebody to sit on your wheel. It does not slow you down and when you start to tire you can always ask him to return the favour! If he does not that is just a good excuse to rip off his legs at the next climb.

I don't think it is so much an issue of being slowed down or being used. More of an issue of being respected/acknowledged. How can you trust not to crash into you if that person knowingly uses some of your effort to their own benefits without even saying hello?

As mseries points out, it's the cycling equivalent of car drivers tailgating you: Very rude.

[Panoramix]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want somebody to sit on your wheel. It does not slow you down and when you start to tire you can always ask him to return the favour! If he does not that is just a good excuse to rip off his legs at the next climb.

I don't think it is so much an issue of being slowed down or being used. More of an issue of being respected/acknowledged. How can you trust not to crash into you if that person knowingly uses some of your effort to their own benefits without even saying hello?

As mseries points out, it's the cycling equivalent of car drivers tailgating you: Very rude.

My comment was more about sitting on somebody's wheel, not about asking / saying hello. TBH I don't do it anymore (unless audaxing) as some people are surprised by the request. I commute on the Bristol-Bath railway path and IMHO it would make sense to share the work between commuters.

During LEL, I have done a lot with a tandem (after asking them), they spent most of the time at the front but in the long windy climb after Dalkeith, two of us have sheltered them as much as we could.

[WIWIW]

As a frequent reader but very infrequent poster on this forum, I have considered this post carefully, having followed the thread with interest.
I've been riding with various clubs for over twenty years (not fickle, work has made me move clubs) and I can honestly say I don't recognise this sort of behaviour at all in the clubs that I have belonged to. I've raced in most disciplines, but overwhelmingly ride my bike for pure enjoyment, and have done many thousands of miles to and from work. I've ridden on club runs and chain gangs many times and there are expectations and standards of behaviour that are almost fiercely guarded and preserved. They don't include being arsey to anyone.
Similarly I have never experienced it from groups from other clubs that have caught me (frequently) or that I have caught (infrequently). A welcome smile, 'sit in for a minute' or 'interesting bike' have been my recent experiences when I've come across Southdown Velo, Fareham Wheelers, Lewes Wanderers and others. And I knew they were lying when they called my bike interesting.
The most anti social, chest puffing and sometimes downright rude and dangerous riders that I've encountered are those on carbon Treks with Zipp wheels and £200 Sidis when they're out for a 5 mile 'training ride' before loading the bike on the back of the 4X4.
Club life has a lot to commend it, particularly some of the more forward thinking clubs that recognise any sport can only survive by bringing in new blood.
I'm sorry if some of you have had bad experiences with club riders - I'm certainly not saying it never happens, but the vast majority of club members are true cyclists who love the sport and the passtime of cycling, and would be appalled if they saw this sort of thing happen.

 

[Zoidburg]

To be honest I would hazard that we on ACF tend to fall into the slightly more distance/audax/touring vein so we are not as orientated to club riding in a bunch.

[gonzo]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want somebody to sit on your wheel. It does not slow you down and when you start to tire you can always ask him to return the favour! If he does not that is just a good excuse to rip off his legs at the next climb.

I don't think it is so much an issue of being slowed down or being used. More of an issue of being respected/acknowledged. How can you trust not to crash into you if that person knowingly uses some of your effort to their own benefits without even saying hello?

As mseries points out, it's the cycling equivalent of car drivers tailgating you: Very rude.

My comment was more about sitting on somebody's wheel, not about asking / saying hello. TBH I don't do it anymore (unless audaxing) as some people are surprised by the request. I commute on the Bristol-Bath railway path and IMHO it would make sense to share the work between commuters.

During LEL, I have done a lot with a tandem (after asking them), they spent most of the time at the front but in the long windy climb after Dalkeith, two of us have sheltered them as much as we could.

Basically, a simple; "Hi, mind if I sit on your wheel for a bit as I'm knackered" is all that's needed. Nearly everyone will say yes. Some will ignore you (loosely translated as no). There are several reasons why someone may not want you on their wheel such as:
- They can brake far more rapidly than you and don't want to be rear ended
- They don't want to have to worry about the person behind (pointing out obstructions etc)
- You've got a noisier bike than them (happened to me once)

I'm in total agreement with WIWIW - it's those with something to prove who tend to be the worst. The riders who are good do not need to beat a commuter to feel good about themselves. They also know that the place for racing is races.

[peanut]

My current technique is to see them coming (you are looking over your shoulder aren't you...) and give a timely little wobble when they are still 5 yards back, they usually give me more space once I've done that.

 

we all want to see this greenbank wobble now so we can emulate it    maybe a tasteful jersey limited edition YACF WOBBler  

I think sitting on someone's wheel unannounced and uninvited for miles is a bit akin to standing too close to someone when we speak to them. Its like invading personal space. Same as when you set up on a deserted beach then some family with a trillion kids sit down right next to you 

If I'm out for a ride on my own I'd usually welcome company but i'd expect someone drafting me to at least say hi to me. I'd think them very rude otherwise . I'd probably stop and pretend to adjust my brakes or something.

[alan]

. I'd probably stop and pretend to adjust my brakes or something.

On the rare occassion when someone wants to stay behind me & I find it unacceptable,farting usually shakes them off

[The Seldom Killer]

I really hate getting boxed in by chaingangs as I'm quite claustrophobic in a large groups. I usually just resort to sitting up and freewheeling to force them out around me and responding to abuse in kind.

Still, there is the karma element to it all. Coming out onto one long descent I saw the back of a training ride and just for laughs I gave a big push and tucked down for a high speed descent. About a third of them gave chase (perhaps thinking I was one of them). The ride leader was calling out for people to slow down and reform but it was too late. As I reached the bottom I resumed by usual low paced twiddling whilst some of them attacked and raced me and presumable each other up the other side leaving the pack in disarray spread all over the hillside and much shouting and confusion. One of them came up on me half way up the hill and said "we're supposed to turn left at the bottom... oh, you're not with us are you...  bugger".

I was highly amused.

[mattc]

I really hate getting boxed in by chaingangs as I'm quite claustrophobic in a large groups. I usually just resort to sitting up and freewheeling ...

I'm amazed some other posters didn't think of this.

Just ease off a bit. It won't take long for the 'pack' to leave you behind, probably without them even thinking about it. Problem solved.

(If they caught you up, you can't be losing much time by letting them get away from you.)

[disrail]

Basically, a simple; "Hi, mind if I sit on your wheel for a bit as I'm knackered" is all that's needed.

And that IS important. I have overtaken cyclists before, or seen them joining my route at a side road, only to look over my shoulder a few hundred meters later and see them on my wheel. It's disconcerting and as you say, if I don't know they're there it could be hazardous.

I find that when this happens, moving swiftly over to the middle of the road, whilst putting in a big effort, followed immediately by a 2 minute interval at AT always makes them disappear.

I think club riding is an essential part of learning cycling etiquette and agree with WIWIW that the main experience of clubs I've had is positive. However, perhaps those positive experiences are easier to come by if you are obviously a club cyclist and one of the gang.

[Steve GT]

I'm getting used to it but I still don't like it. My current technique is to see them coming (you are looking over your shoulder aren't you...) and give a timely little wobble when they are still 5 yards back, they usually give me more space once I've done that.

Not as often as I should.. I rely more on my ears to tell me that motor vehicles are approaching, although this does not work with approaching cyclists and I have been caught out before.
You have a good point and I will work on that.

[giropaul]

I'm getting used to it but I still don't like it. My current technique is to see them coming (you are looking over your shoulder aren't you...) and give a timely little wobble when they are still 5 yards back, they usually give me more space once I've done that.

Not as often as I should.. I rely more on my ears to tell me that motor vehicles are approaching, although this does not work with approaching cyclists and I have been caught out before.
You have a good point and I will work on that.

You'd hear my club coming up behind you - one or two talk constantly!!

[alan]

You'd hear my club coming up behind you - one or two talk constantly!!

Which club is that Paul?

[David Martin]

You'd hear my club coming up behind you - one or two talk constantly!!

I know when I am about to get dropped - the others stop talking.

..d