Author Topic: The TT Thread  (Read 255048 times)

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2325 on: June 16, 2020, 09:35:20 am »
The Condor one on the H10/17 is a Thursday evening event. They tweak it a bit so it uses the H25/17 start, not sure why. The only weekend TTs I'm aware of them running are the start and end of season ones on Saturday morning on Stadhampton (slow course, horrible surface, though not as brutal as Oakley).
Last August I did a Didcot Phoenix open on the A420 (the actual H10/17R course as it appears on the CTT website) on a Saturday afternoon - that was absolutely fine. Maybe you marshalled me? If so, thanks.  :thumbsup:

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2326 on: August 08, 2020, 01:01:15 pm »
My target events got cancelled, then my backups, then the backups for the backups.  I gave up training, pulled out of the Breckland 12 and marshalled for it instead. 

Meanwhile, Joe Skipper came back and did 325 miles to breakcomp record, while staying on the course this time! 

See his youtube video here

Meanwhile I've found some backups to the backups to the backups, and will be trying to get fit for a 10 and a 25 in September.  Joe put out 282 Watts for 12 hours - let's see if I can keep up in the shorter events!

mattc

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2327 on: August 08, 2020, 01:47:14 pm »
I did a cross race on Thursday night - almost the same as a pre-Covid race, but run as a 6-lap TT (you had to count your own laps - purely chip timing).

Quite an odd experience, but just as much fun as the usual races. A large proportion of riders seemed to have trouble counting to 6 :D

Maybe 50 riders (across 3 categories - all adults).
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2328 on: August 08, 2020, 01:59:48 pm »
I did a cross race on Thursday night - almost the same as a pre-Covid race, but run as a 6-lap TT (you had to count your own laps - purely chip timing).

Quite an odd experience, but just as much fun as the usual races. A large proportion of riders seemed to have trouble counting to 6 :D
Was that the Take3 event? How much passing was there - I saw that some people finished a lap down?

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2329 on: August 08, 2020, 02:40:21 pm »
Mr Skipper not noticed the new reg about mobile phones, then ?

I’m having a long think about next year.   New area, new colours but the same, slightly older, legs.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2330 on: August 10, 2020, 09:31:13 pm »
Just did my first TT of the season. Very sweaty.

mattc

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2331 on: August 10, 2020, 09:51:49 pm »
I did a cross race on Thursday night - almost the same as a pre-Covid race, but run as a 6-lap TT (you had to count your own laps - purely chip timing).

Quite an odd experience, but just as much fun as the usual races. A large proportion of riders seemed to have trouble counting to 6 :D
Was that the Take3 event? How much passing was there - I saw that some people finished a lap down?
Yup.
Lots of passing, but not in grouplets like normal. Jolly civilised.

Anyone stopping short did so by their own volition 😆
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2332 on: August 15, 2020, 06:30:13 pm »
First "proper" TT tomorrow morning. Arrangements seem well thought out ...

But we MUST bring our own pen and safety-pins! :P
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2333 on: September 02, 2020, 11:26:26 am »
Finally, something to take home from this disaster of a season: one of my backup^3 events came up trumps. The Drighlington BC 25 had fine sunny weather and light winds - near-perfect conditions, at least if you were off sufficiently far down the field.  Muggins here was one of the very first riders off, and I'd barely rubbed the sleep out of my eyes in time to start out into the cold, traffic-free air on the V236/1.  I also think I have quite drunk enough fluids to digest my porridge that morning, as it was quite a large bowl of porridge yet I still started bonking halfway round and had to take an emergency gel, which you really shouldn't have to do in a 25. 

I stopped the clock in 56:05, which is a new PB by 54 seconds.   :D :thumbsup: O:-). My 25 was always historically my weakest PB, and it's a bit annoying to have improved by nearly a minute yet not moved off a 56, particularly as in addition to the errors listed above, my now-mandatory rear light wasn't my most aero model (which couldn't be found when I was running for the train) and I also ran out of time to lengthen my front brake hose, so that was sticking way out in the wind.  Just think, either of those could have been those six seconds!  Still, a PB is PB, and given I was primarily doing this event to preserve my LTS which ran out this year, a new PB is very good news  :D

Now, onto Saturday's 10.  Let's see if I can repeat the performance!


Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2334 on: September 09, 2020, 06:54:05 am »
After a lacklustre August of flat TT, finally the hill climb season has landed.
First event last Saturday... too short a hill for me, so I finished in another very average 13th... interesting that last year with the same time I would have finished 8th. The new "foot on the ground" start makes short hills a bit of a lottery, I probably lost 5 seconds or so. But great to be able to race at all and great to see so many juniors and juveniles taking on TT, and being already so bloody fast...  >:(


Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2335 on: September 13, 2020, 06:49:35 pm »
22:31 in the ten I mentioned.  A pretty poor performance but it's done its job: improving my LTS (previously on slow club courses) so I can enter events going forward.  That's my season over, now I'm off touring.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2336 on: September 14, 2020, 07:22:07 am »
First "proper" TT tomorrow morning. Arrangements seem well thought out ...

But we MUST bring our own pen and safety-pins! :P

I keep bringing my own pen and safety pins as advised, just for the organisers to write down my name with their pen and handing me a pre-pinned number, which allegedly has been sanitised, but in reality seems to have still a bit of mud from a previous race on...  ::-)

No doubt the day I stop doing so, there will be no pen and no pins at the event...


Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2337 on: September 14, 2020, 01:16:35 pm »
22:31 in the ten I mentioned.  A pretty poor performance but it's done its job: improving my LTS (previously on allow club courses) so I can enter events going forward.  That's my season over, now I'm off touring.

What power for that if you don't mind me asking...?
I'm normally at the bottom end of the standings in a flat TT, kind of long 25... but it's also true I don't have anything aero, nothing, not even high profile wheels. My rationale is that with 260 Watt (or 4 W/kg) I wouldn't be very high up in the standings even if I spent ten grand in equipment and learned to use it properly, so I prefer to save the money. I did a couple of 10 at Mallory Park in August and with a 23 you're in the bottom half, 30th or thereabout. For me, being 30th or 50th makes no difference.

But then, peeking through people's outputs published on Strava, I see some very fast juniors, doing 21 with similar power to mine and I wonder if it's got to do with W/kg, which in their case might be more like 5, or it's got to do with them being so skinny that even their CdA is more favourable than that of senior riders...

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2338 on: September 27, 2020, 12:55:23 pm »
22:31 in the ten I mentioned.  A pretty poor performance but it's done its job: improving my LTS (previously on allow club courses) so I can enter events going forward.  That's my season over, now I'm off touring.

What power for that if you don't mind me asking...?
I'm normally at the bottom end of the standings in a flat TT, kind of long 25... but it's also true I don't have anything aero, nothing, not even high profile wheels. My rationale is that with 260 Watt (or 4 W/kg) I wouldn't be very high up in the standings even if I spent ten grand in equipment and learned to use it properly, so I prefer to save the money. I did a couple of 10 at Mallory Park in August and with a 23 you're in the bottom half, 30th or thereabout. For me, being 30th or 50th makes no difference.

But then, peeking through people's outputs published on Strava, I see some very fast juniors, doing 21 with similar power to mine and I wonder if it's got to do with W/kg, which in their case might be more like 5, or it's got to do with them being so skinny that even their CdA is more favourable than that of senior riders...

My PM died during the 10, but the 25 I did five days before was a 235 W average power (not NP) for 56:05.  I performed better in the 25 than the 10, as it mattered more to me whereas the 10 was basically rolling round to update my qualifying time and hadn't trained since the previous event.  That's all with position that tests to give [censored] CdA, but also squishes my hip angle a bit so I produce a bit less power than in a more relaxed position, and which I've had to train into to produce as much as I do.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2339 on: September 27, 2020, 03:05:50 pm »
22:31 in the ten I mentioned.  A pretty poor performance but it's done its job: improving my LTS (previously on allow club courses) so I can enter events going forward.  That's my season over, now I'm off touring.

What power for that if you don't mind me asking...?
I'm normally at the bottom end of the standings in a flat TT, kind of long 25... but it's also true I don't have anything aero, nothing, not even high profile wheels. My rationale is that with 260 Watt (or 4 W/kg) I wouldn't be very high up in the standings even if I spent ten grand in equipment and learned to use it properly, so I prefer to save the money. I did a couple of 10 at Mallory Park in August and with a 23 you're in the bottom half, 30th or thereabout. For me, being 30th or 50th makes no difference.

But then, peeking through people's outputs published on Strava, I see some very fast juniors, doing 21 with similar power to mine and I wonder if it's got to do with W/kg, which in their case might be more like 5, or it's got to do with them being so skinny that even their CdA is more favourable than that of senior riders...

My PM died during the 10, but the 25 I did five days before was a 235 W average power (not NP) for 56:05.  I performed better in the 25 than the 10, as it mattered more to me whereas the 10 was basically rolling round to update my qualifying time and hadn't trained since the previous event.  That's all with position that tests to give [censored] CdA, but also squishes my hip angle a bit so I produce a bit less power than in a more relaxed position, and which I've had to train into to produce as much as I do.

Interesting... There certainly is a lot to gain by going for the full aero kit... I thought it would be along the lines of 2 minutes max for a 10, but looks like it's a bit more...
All academic, I have no money, or storage space for a TT bike...  :P


Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2340 on: September 27, 2020, 05:31:24 pm »
Sell your power meter to fund some aero kit!


(If you don't have a PM, where did that 260 W figure come from?  A Wattbike?  I hope you aren't being naughty and trusting Strava's estimated power figures?  They're a complete work of fiction.)

Things you can do for little or no money:
1) You have tribars, right?  Move them closer together.  Your hands should be touching, and your elbows not all that much further apart.  At least as narrow as mine - I carry a bottle between my arms as I mostly do longer events, but I'd investigate different water storage options and arms closer together if I didn't have too much invested in my current setup, and too few TTs planned in the coming season, to make a change worthwhile. 
2) If you have a different saddle position for road and TT, get a second saddle and a seatpost to go with it and mark both of their insertion points with tape, so you can swap them quickly.  If you can stretch to one, a specific TT one like the ISM Adamo is more comfortable than a standard road saddle. 
3) Did I say a different position?  Don't trust the 'up and forward round the BB' position advice: it works for some people but it's outdated and often wrong.  A lot of people, myself included, find it's more aero to drop your saddle *down* a bit and then move it backwards until you've got enough height.  You'll lose a bit of power but it will come back with training in position, and the aero gains are worth it.  If you're usually a toes down pedaller, learn to be a heels down pedaller. 
4) Practice dropping your head and looking out of the tops of your eyes.  It'll be uncomfortable at first but again, gets more natural with training in position.  The standard advice is to concentrate on pushing your chin both down and forward. 
5) Once you've got that position, train in it!  Some core and neck exercises off the bike will also help. 
6) Get a helmet.  The Giro Selector and Bell Javelin are a couple of generations old now but are known to test reasonably well on a wide range of people, and can be picked up dirt cheap secondhand. 
7) Get a skinsuit.  The Velotec ones are comparatively inexpensive (£120) compared to other good ones, but have been spotted on some very good and very attentive riders so must test well.
8.) Do you wear mitts to TT?  Don't.
9) Do your shoes have buckles poking out?  Get some oversocks.  The shiny Madison ones are about £15 but are meant to be a good budget option - though beware, I've got some and you need to size down.
10) Shave your legs   ;D 
11) Where are your gear and brake cables?  Go to any lengths you can to hide them from the wind. 
10) How wide are your tyres?  Get whatever width will make the tyre shape flow smoothly into your rims.  Get some low rolling resistance ones - the Continental GP4000/5000 is a popular choice for a set with a bit of puncture resistance. 
11) Remove any bottles from your frame before you TT.  If you must have a bottle, the ST one causes less drag than the DT one, but if you're doing a 10/25 you can remove both. 
12) Your drivetrain should of course be absolutely clean, lubed and shiny. 

Hopefully that's enough to be getting on with  :D

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2341 on: September 28, 2020, 11:11:28 am »
^ Lots of very good advice.  You would need to spend months reading the TT forum to come up with that amount of useful info.  And, believe me, you don't want to do that! 

Re saddle and seatpost, I once had a second saddle / seatpost for getting a TT position on a road bike.  I used a VK adaptor to get the TT saddle a long way forward into the position I wanted it.  But I wouldn't use that position now - I also now try to get lower and further back than I used to.  But that is only possible as I have improved my flexibility: high / forward position is forgiving of poor lower back / hip / hamstring flexibility.

ISM / Adamo is a good saddle choice as it is just about the only saddle that is comfortable (for some, not all, people) both for riding on aerobars and hoods/tops.  But you do need to read what it says about changing position - it needs to go a long way further down and back than other saddles - otherwise it will be really uncomfortable (I know as I didn't first time I had one and it was)

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2342 on: September 28, 2020, 03:08:09 pm »
^ Lots of very good advice.  You would need to spend months reading the TT forum to come up with that amount of useful info.  And, believe me, you don't want to do that! 

Re saddle and seatpost, I once had a second saddle / seatpost for getting a TT position on a road bike.  I used a VK adaptor to get the TT saddle a long way forward into the position I wanted it.  But I wouldn't use that position now - I also now try to get lower and further back than I used to.  But that is only possible as I have improved my flexibility: high / forward position is forgiving of poor lower back / hip / hamstring flexibility.
ISM / Adamo is a good saddle choice as it is just about the only saddle that is comfortable (for some, not all, people) both for riding on aerobars and hoods/tops.  But you do need to read what it says about changing position - it needs to go a long way further down and back than other saddles - otherwise it will be really uncomfortable (I know as I didn't first time I had one and it was)
I definitely agree about reading the TT forum! :)
High and forward works better for me than low and back - I simply can't fold myself up enough to get my shoulders low in the latter setup. To that end, I got a seatpost with a forward offset like this: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/profile-design-fast-forward-aluminium-seat-post
It means I can set up a regular road bike (in my case an old 531 frame) with similar geo to the TT bikes. I also have an Adamo saddle - it was the only way I could get low and avoid numbness (or tipping forward due to nose down angle).

Geriatricdolan
In general, the key is to focus on position and making yourself as low drag as possible. You don't need a superbike , if your position is good then you can go very fast on a regular bike. There seem to be some interesting fitting options where someone will take a 3d picture of you and pop that into some CFD software to see where the easy aero gains are, but I suspect you have a lot of space left for improvement before you need that sort of approach (or the even more expensive wind tunnel time).

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2343 on: September 28, 2020, 04:44:24 pm »
I do have a power meter.

Thanks for all the advice...
To be fair, I prefer to use the summer TTs as a way to get some form for the autumn hill climbs... I seem to do better in those and they are less "expensive". Yes, I could spend a fortune for the elusive 5 kg bike, but realistically it won't make a lot of difference, whereas seemingly in flat TT is all about having the right gear... and even if I had the right gear, I still wouldn't get anywhere near the top ten in an open, those guys all have an FTP over 300 and I would never qualify for the National 10... so it seems poor ROI...  :P

When it comes to tyres, I am a bit of a hoarder... currently using Corsa 2.0 for every day and Pirelli P Zero TT for dry days and good surface races... the latter are insane... Supersonic tubes, of course

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2344 on: September 28, 2020, 08:24:21 pm »
Just in case - some of the strategies apply excellently to CTT time trials, but some would get you disqualified in a UCI event ( including BC). I mention this because even some international riders have run foul of this.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2345 on: September 29, 2020, 11:07:11 am »
Are you getting near the top 10 in serious hillclimbs? Chapeau.

In recent memory a national 10 was won on a sub £1000 bike. I think they borrowed a few bits from their/mates spares stash, but to be competitive, you need a good engine and a good position - you can throw money at all the rest but without those 2 you aren't going to be effective. The most expensive thing on Karla's list was the velotec speedsuit, which is about £120. After that, the lids can be had secondhand for about 40, and the rest is very cheap or free (saddles are personal, you can spend loads and never find the right one or be lucky and find that most work).

That 10 winning bike details:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/how-a-bike-costing-1000-won-the-national-10-mile-time-trial-championship-189583

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2346 on: September 29, 2020, 01:45:41 pm »
Are you getting near the top 10 in serious hillclimbs? Chapeau.

I didn't say that... I said that I do better, ie I am not in the bottom 20%, like I am in flat TT events.

Club (B type) HC events are of variable standards... I have even won one, when only 3 people showed up...  :thumbsup: I did 7th last Saturday in a field of 30... which is probably my most meaningful result. I regularly make top half or better.

Open events are different beasts, the competition is fierce... first of all I am a veteran, so I tend not to look at what espoir and senior do... their heart rate can go up to 190-200, mine can't... overall my best result is 26th... but if we look only at the vets, then I've done 5th... typically I am top third in the Vets in an Open.

That might be enough for a ticket to Streatley this October... it depends on Covid. If the plan is to have a large event with well over 200 competitors, then I should get a place, if the event will be restricted in numbers, then I won't get a place.

Bottom line is that it's a short intense season, where many stand a chance to finish it at the National... in flat TT you need to be at the pinnacle of the game to get to the National... plus hill climb makes much nicer photos...  ;D

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2347 on: September 29, 2020, 02:32:39 pm »
I've got into nationals without a qualifying time at that distance at every distance from 50 miles upwards.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2348 on: September 29, 2020, 03:09:52 pm »
I've got into nationals without a qualifying time at that distance at every distance from 50 miles upwards.

Well done...!

I suspect the shorter 10 and 25 miles distances are a lot more "competitive", 'cause they're way more popular. A few club mates who regularly do long 21s and 22s didn't get a spot last August, you needed a low 20 at the very least to make the National 10...

The long distances are a bit of an acquired taste... the idea of churning a big gear in an aero position for over 2 hours sounds like torture. But I can see some enjoying this kind of pain, just like some enjoy racing in TCR and similar races. We are all different.
I kind of like the 4 minutes of pure hell of a hill climb... it hurts, but it's over quickly and it doesn't leave me aching for days afterwards.

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2349 on: September 29, 2020, 03:54:12 pm »
It depends.  In 2012 I got into the national 25 on a fast course (the T252) with a 1:01:21 back when I was starting out, and judging by the field seeding there were about ten riders slower than me.  Speeds have increased a bit in the intervening years and it also helped me that the course was so far north - entries were much stiffer when the event was on the similarly fast H25/2 near London a couple of years later.  You have to pick your moments. 

Also, note that you don't need *all* of the very latest kit.  At least two national champs have been won this year on a Cervelo P3C, which is a ~15 year old design.  It had some excellent wheels and finishing kit of course, but you can get a full P2/P3 build for about £1k on eBay and then tinker and build it up as you go along.