Author Topic: The TT Thread  (Read 269961 times)

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2425 on: January 05, 2021, 08:42:19 am »
Open calendar is out...

There's some stuff in spring I'd like to do, but I wonder how much of it will actually happen...  :P

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2426 on: January 16, 2021, 07:41:34 pm »
Jumping into the tail end of this thread if thats ok.
Id like to give a 24 hour TT a bash. Like one of the other OP's I'm not up for buying an all out TT bike and will be repurposing my endurance bike which is comfortable enough for me to plough away on for a long stretch.
Its a disc set up and Ive got some aero bars with shifters on it,
Beyond dropping the spacers on the aero bars in increments as I learn to manage/hold the position, and wearing aero clothing is there anything else that I should be zeroing in on at this early stage?
I don't have a power meter either.
Thx.
often lost.

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2427 on: January 16, 2021, 09:28:43 pm »
Some listening material about long distance TTing

12 Hour And Going Long With Alice Lethbridge, Michael Broadwith, Steve Avery, Hosted By Michelle Lee

Road Records Association on Soundcloud

The Cycling Time Trial Podcast

[EDIT]

Also, Andy Wilkinson - Doing It My Way, recorded after his 2011 record.  Andy will probably be out on the Mersey circuit when you do it, so make sure to bask in the presence of greatness!

Pedal Castro

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2428 on: January 16, 2021, 11:30:14 pm »
Quote from: Karla
Andy Wilkinson - Doing It My Way[/url], recorded after his 2011 record.  Andy will probably be out on the Mersey circuit when you do it, so make sure to bask in the presence of greatness!

I loved it when Wilco cheered me on by name in 2015, he must have name checked every competitor.

cygnet

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2429 on: January 17, 2021, 07:19:36 pm »
There's some useful info on the various 24hr threads here too, worth a trawl.

Give some thought to logistics (feeding/drinking, support) It's not urgent, but should be considered.

Got any mates with disc-brake racing wheels?
Reasonably Inconsiderate

Karla

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2430 on: January 17, 2021, 07:39:57 pm »
Yeah there are too many threads to link to here, just search the forum for "Mersey Roads 24". 

Doing that has thrown up This Cycling Weekly article from 2013, which is worth a read. 

Note that the organisers are moving away from using the Prees-Espley stretch too much, so the main leg is likely to be more Shawbirch-Espley heavy.  This means you'll likely need any supporters to move between Espley for the main circuit and Prees for the Quina Brook circuit, rather than just staying at Prees all the time. 

cygnet

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2431 on: January 17, 2021, 09:34:50 pm »
Note that the organisers are moving away from using the Prees-Espley stretch too much, so the main leg is likely to be more Shawbirch-Espley heavy.  This means you'll likely need any supporters to move between Espley for the main circuit and Prees for the Quina Brook circuit, rather than just staying at Prees all the time.

That's a bit of a bugger for the less agile support crews. Should be faster though.
Reasonably Inconsiderate

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2432 on: January 18, 2021, 08:50:23 am »
Note that the organisers are moving away from using the Prees-Espley stretch too much, so the main leg is likely to be more Shawbirch-Espley heavy.  This means you'll likely need any supporters to move between Espley for the main circuit and Prees for the Quina Brook circuit, rather than just staying at Prees all the time.

That's a bit of a bugger for the less agile support crews. Should be faster though.

Prees-Espley is faster than Shawbirch-Espley, no?  Or have they resurfaced the southern bit now?  I've not ridden it since 2015.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2433 on: January 18, 2021, 08:52:37 am »
Jumping into the tail end of this thread if thats ok.
Id like to give a 24 hour TT a bash. Like one of the other OP's I'm not up for buying an all out TT bike and will be repurposing my endurance bike which is comfortable enough for me to plough away on for a long stretch.
Its a disc set up and Ive got some aero bars with shifters on it,
Beyond dropping the spacers on the aero bars in increments as I learn to manage/hold the position, and wearing aero clothing is there anything else that I should be zeroing in on at this early stage?
I don't have a power meter either.
Thx.

Good luck, Jonah!  If you do the Mersey, it's a wonderful event, you won't regret it.  Afterwards!
There are more in the US, if that is what you are planning.  If so, seek out Hippy's blogs on the California one.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2434 on: January 18, 2021, 01:15:03 pm »
Thanks for all the links. Great stuff.
Cheers Frank. I'd love to sign up for the Mersey Roads. My crowd all hail from Birkenhead and I have fond memories of periodically riding to my Grans from the Potteries as a youth. I'll likely not have the right bike over that side of the water any time soon though. A local solo effort here (at least a dry run) or a trip to the States is going to be the simplest option.
Ive put the word out to the triathletes in my club to scrounge up some borrowed equipment later in the year.
I'll be sure to read on on Hippy's blog, lying particular attention to his nutritional advice!
often lost.

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2435 on: January 18, 2021, 11:07:24 pm »
Prees-Espley is faster than Shawbirch-Espley, no?  Or have they resurfaced the southern bit now?  I've not ridden it since 2015.

In my head Shawbirch-Espley is flatter.

Can't comment on the relative state of the roads though. We only did the Shawbirch leg twice last time, and my memory's not that good. Maybe I'm compounding it with the addition of the Battlefield circuit too.
Reasonably Inconsiderate

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2436 on: January 19, 2021, 03:21:02 pm »
The 24 is my long term interest, i'm not a racer but have been thinking about it over the winter, gathering some information and reading some stuff. Hoping the Mersey will run this year.

I recommend reading through the old threads on here which I have done recently and it links to a few different things of interest. Takes a bit of patience to move through and find what is relevant. Ive consumed all the podcasts Karla linked to and enjoyed them. There are also a number of accounts on blogs which give an range of interesting insights and help you pull out things to consider. Not least the ideal and less than ideal types of preparation, needing to properly pace efforts and how you will manage fuelling.

A few other things I remember reading and finding useful;


24 Hour Fellowship Manual  - Whilst some parts are dated it addresses the different key considerations of racing long.

https://www.24hourfellowship.org.uk/documents/24HrFellowshipManual.pdf


Damon Peacocks video's of the Mersey give the feeling of an alluring event.

https://www.youtube.com/user/damonpeacock/search?query=mersey


How to Train for 24hours by Andy Jackson is an interesting read in terms of some training and preparation considerations from a champion.

https://peakssportsconsultancy.com/2019/11/06/how-to-race-for-24hrs-or-longer/


This podcast of 24 hour TT Champion Meaghan Hackinen is worth a listen in terms of how she moved through Randonneuring, Ultra Racing and then to this event.

https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/24-hour-tt-world-champion-meaghan-hackinen-successful-athletes-podcast-005/38249


Jasmijn Muller's account of world 24 hour offers another perspective of that event.

https://duracellbunnyonabike.com/2017/11/10/world-24-hour-tt-champion/



Interested to hear if you come across anything else.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2437 on: January 19, 2021, 03:29:23 pm »
The best single thing IMHO is a series of video interviews done with Andy Wilkinson about 10 years ago.  I've not seen them for a while, but they are up on YouTube somewhere.

There's also a very good podcast on it by Mike Broadwith.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2438 on: January 19, 2021, 03:42:20 pm »
The best single thing IMHO is a series of video interviews done with Andy Wilkinson about 10 years ago.  I've not seen them for a while, but they are up on YouTube somewhere.

There's also a very good podcast on it by Mike Broadwith.


Yep, I agree they give a really detailed breakdown of what made his attempts a success. Karla has linked the videos above they are called 'Doing it My Way'.

I think the podcast with Mike Broadwith is on the Cycling Time Trials Podcast. He has done a number of them in different places and they are all a good listen, including those focussing on his end to end attempts.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2439 on: January 19, 2021, 03:44:45 pm »
A slight diversion, but relevant to Morbihan's post.

I also asked a question a while back about TT positions, reach and general theory to guide an initial fit.

There is lots of differing opinion online and I found it incredibly difficult to get a basic idea of where to start with clip on bars to begin the process of trying things out.

I thought I would post a couple of links which were helpful in starting to work out what might be good for me. Rather than prescribing to a particular school they look at the range of fit parameters and how they interact. I used them to guide my position and I have taken pictures and measured angles, tweaked things and developed a better understanding for the principles discussed.

Bike Fitting for the rank amateur;


1) Time Trial and Triathlon Bike Fitting

https://bikedynamics.co.uk/FitGuideTT.htm


2) How to Fit a Triathlon or TT Bike Part 3: Upper Body Positioning

https://blog.bikefit.com/triathlon-tt-fitting-upper-body/


3) Time Trial v Triathlon bike fit

https://peakssportsconsultancy.com/2018/12/09/time-trial-v-triathlon-bike-fit/



Back to work....

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2440 on: January 19, 2021, 04:41:44 pm »
Fitting is a whole other can of worms, and has been discussed a number of times on this thread. I don't know if this applies to the longer distances, but it seems that the really fast crowd seem to be going down and back, and living with the reduced power output in exchange for a reduced drag number. Whether that will work for you is impossible to say, the whole process seems driven by trial and error (in terms of what power you can do in a given position) as much as science (drag numbers).

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2441 on: January 19, 2021, 05:09:14 pm »
Whatever position you end up deciding on, I’d suggest using it for several months before a long race. Using the position for some long riders indoors may be ideal.
I’d also suggest some core exercises from a coach that understands long distance TTing

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2442 on: January 19, 2021, 08:20:43 pm »
Note that the organisers are moving away from using the Prees-Espley stretch too much, so the main leg is likely to be more Shawbirch-Espley heavy.  This means you'll likely need any supporters to move between Espley for the main circuit and Prees for the Quina Brook circuit, rather than just staying at Prees all the time.

Do you have any idea if this intended change to have more of the event on the Shawbirch-Espley section is likely to include the night circuit as well or will it be just during the daytime?

Will it lengthen the night circuit to Prees-Shawbirch-Press or send you down to do laps of Shawbirch-Espley section overnight?

I had to find a visual reference to try and make sense of this having never ridden the event. Luckily you kindly provided one in 2019  :thumbsup:



Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2443 on: January 22, 2021, 11:41:44 am »
I have ridden a few of these 24 hour TT events in recent years - 7 in 5 years, in fact... although that pales into insignificance soemwhat vs George Berwick, Lynne Biddulph, Steve Abraham et al.

I would highly recommend, in fact I do regularly recommend, riding the Mersey 24 to anyone. I don't think that I have met anyone who has ever regretted it and the atmosphere before, during and after the event is first rate. Lots of people seem to swear that they'll never do it again before immediately planning how they can go just a little bit further next time.

- For me, nutrition is the key to the whole event. See Michael Hutchinson's article in Cycling Weekly about long distance TTs being an uncomfortable eating competition. There was more than a little truth in that. Find drinks, food and gels that don't irritate your tummy. Start eating and drinking an hour before the race and don't stop until an hour after.

- Smile and enjoy it, say hi to all the other riders and feed off their energy. I have had lots of great conversations and cheers from people out on the road and many people you'll see over and over during the race. I have certainly made a good few friends for life through this event.

- Minimise your stops. There really is no need to stop, apart from perhaps to put lights on or take them off... but even that is debatable. I wish I had concentrated on this more when I rode my first one in 2015 when I stopped for about 20 minutes, I guess because I just thought that that was what people did. In 2019, I managed to stop for about 2 mins 15 and about 45 sec of that was because I had a stuck zip on my top.

If you do have any questions that I might be able to answer, about the Mersey, or the US 24, or long distance TTs in general then just ask and I will try my best  :)

Karla

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    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2444 on: January 22, 2021, 01:04:34 pm »
^^He's quite fast. 


Do you have any idea if this intended change to have more of the event on the Shawbirch-Espley section is likely to include the night circuit as well or will it be just during the daytime?

Will it lengthen the night circuit to Prees-Shawbirch-Press or send you down to do laps of Shawbirch-Espley section overnight?

I don't know, sorry.  On the 12 hour this year they were just going to lap Shawbirch-Espley before going onto the Quinoa Brook circuit, though in the end they had to use Battlefield instead as a truck crashed on the Shawbirch leg.  Then again they might keep the night circuit as-is, given it's at night? 

The best bet is probably to email the organiser at his address on the CTT page, or search out Mersey Roads 24 on Twitter and ask him there.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2445 on: January 25, 2021, 08:11:27 pm »
I have ridden a few of these 24 hour TT events in recent years - 7 in 5 years, in fact... although that pales into insignificance soemwhat vs George Berwick, Lynne Biddulph, Steve Abraham et al.

I would highly recommend, in fact I do regularly recommend, riding the Mersey 24 to anyone. I don't think that I have met anyone who has ever regretted it and the atmosphere before, during and after the event is first rate. Lots of people seem to swear that they'll never do it again before immediately planning how they can go just a little bit further next time.

- For me, nutrition is the key to the whole event. See Michael Hutchinson's article in Cycling Weekly about long distance TTs being an uncomfortable eating competition. There was more than a little truth in that. Find drinks, food and gels that don't irritate your tummy. Start eating and drinking an hour before the race and don't stop until an hour after.

- Smile and enjoy it, say hi to all the other riders and feed off their energy. I have had lots of great conversations and cheers from people out on the road and many people you'll see over and over during the race. I have certainly made a good few friends for life through this event.

- Minimise your stops. There really is no need to stop, apart from perhaps to put lights on or take them off... but even that is debatable. I wish I had concentrated on this more when I rode my first one in 2015 when I stopped for about 20 minutes, I guess because I just thought that that was what people did. In 2019, I managed to stop for about 2 mins 15 and about 45 sec of that was because I had a stuck zip on my top.

If you do have any questions that I might be able to answer, about the Mersey, or the US 24, or long distance TTs in general then just ask and I will try my best  :)

Thanks for the feedback.
Having done a little reading on the Mersey 24 and with your rec  I'll aim to give it a go.
One article that really appealed was a guy who gave it a bash on a pretty humble audax set up. He enjoyed it.
I was leary about turning up at an event where everyone was using space age TT  bikes and using tons of technical equipment. I'd like to stick pretty much with what I have here and can train on. Essentially a nice comfortable ti bike with some medium deep profile wheels. (AR 4:5)
I've ridden a couple of 24' ish loops around the Island here (Bermuda) on a bike packing set up, but more to focus on long distance racing than specifically a fast 24. I'll do the training here but TBH there is nowhere on the Island that has the room for a PB effort. Too many stops and starts.
I have a goal in mind to reach before my 60th so a couple of years or so to get it wrong in the meantime.
This years out but I'll shoot for 2022.

often lost.

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2446 on: January 25, 2021, 08:45:37 pm »
Jumping into the tail end of this thread if thats ok.
Id like to give a 24 hour TT a bash. Like one of the other OP's I'm not up for buying an all out TT bike and will be repurposing my endurance bike which is comfortable enough for me to plough away on for a long stretch.
Its a disc set up and Ive got some aero bars with shifters on it,
Beyond dropping the spacers on the aero bars in increments as I learn to manage/hold the position, and wearing aero clothing is there anything else that I should be zeroing in on at this early stage?
I don't have a power meter either.
Thx.

Andy Wilkinson has used a converted mtb in the past.

Karla

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    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2447 on: January 25, 2021, 10:38:09 pm »
Weeeellll ... kinda, but it quickly became his custom Ti/steel Dolan bike, which was very well thought through and not at all like a modern mountain bike, so that's a bit off the mark these days. 

FYI for his LEJOG record he used the latest carbon fibre road bike, fitted with the then-new tribars. There are sadly no photos in this article about it, but the article itself is ahugely interesting and useful insight to his planning, and is definitely worth a read.  For his 1996 BBAR triple record and his 1997 24 record he was on a Giant MCR TT bike and for his 2011 24 record he was on the custom Dolan.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2448 on: January 25, 2021, 10:45:44 pm »
I've not been keeping up, but I got this in from the TT supremo of my local club today:

"Some of you may have seen that the CTT have unanimously voted against gender equality in prize money. As a committee member I have asked CTT Scotland for a response. Based on their reply I will raise this issue at our committee meeting to consider our continued affiliation with CTT.  As an organiser I always pay equal prize money and offer equal trophies, as I do on Zwift race leagues. This is really not that hard. As a club we recently worked hard to create gender parity in the trophies we offer."

Is this really the case?

Karla

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    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #2449 on: January 25, 2021, 11:20:39 pm »
I think a lot of the organisers are staying out of the debate by removing prize money from their events.  It was a bit of a joke anyway: burn $$ of fuel driving across the country to race the fastest roads on $$$ worth of bike, and then get a twenty squid in a brown envelope at the end if you win.  None of us do it for the money and most would rather have 50p knocked off the entry fee. At the other end of the scale, none of the local club events offered prize money in the first place.