Whinging rail commuters

[Gattopardo]

Not as much fun as the dirty looks you get taking a non-folding bike on the train just after the cycle restrictions have ended (i.e. leaving Waterloo just after 7pm) and the trains are still relatively packed.

As for the story, I've seen some stupid/arrogant behaviour from cyclists on trains (both the groups that lock their bikes up at the stations, and those who carry folding bikes on trains). There are idiots that use all forms of transport.

But then it seems that almost every time I'm on a commuter train there's always someone that thinks their bag has a right to take up a seat on a packed train, even when someone asks them politely to move it so they can sit down. Or someone who I'd assume is perfectly able-bodied who won't even consider giving up their seat for the eldery person or visibly pregnant woman. The usual perpetrators are the very same suits that are whinging about folding bikes.

So we remeber the inconsiderate ones but not the considerate ones.

Bring back the guard van.

[Chris S]

Of course, a lot of this would be moot if people were just a teensy weensy bit more tolerant.

IMHO, toleration seems to have leached out of society in recent years.

[Greenbank]

Not sure how long they've been there but TFL have hadded some new signs on tubes, buses and trains. A series of cartoon characters with t-shirts containing slogans:-

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/projectsandschemes/communityandeducation/asb/default.aspx

The slogans are as follows:

I'll offer that person my seat.
I won't shout on my mobile.
I won't eat smelly food.
I won't drop litter.
I won't play my music out loud.

The two others that stand out are elder looking characters with:-

I'll keep my temper down.
And I'll remember what it was like being 14.

[spen666]

Would these commuting city-working types be the same ones that on a Friday evening make such a fecking nuisance of themselves by shouting, singing, puking, fighting, stinking of B.O. and being so bloody unpleasant that it has stopped me attending CM any more?

Feck' em!!  Wankers!!!

Sounds just like you behav at CM 

[Gattopardo]

Of course, a lot of this would be moot if people were just a teensy weensy bit more tolerant.

IMHO, toleration seems to have leached out of society in recent years.

When was the last time you took a rush hour train.  When the sweaty smelly commuter arm pit.

Tolerance is severally tested hence why I do anything to avoid it.

[Chris S]

Of course, a lot of this would be moot if people were just a teensy weensy bit more tolerant.

IMHO, toleration seems to have leached out of society in recent years.

When was the last time you took a rush hour train.  When the sweaty smelly commuter arm pit.

Tolerance is severally tested hence why I do anything to avoid it.

Last Friday. It was unpleasant, but I didn't feel the need to be intolerant. Day in day out? Fair enough I suppose, but 12 years ago Mrs S and I chose not to do that anymore, and moved away from London. This continues to be a choice open to most, I'd imagine.

[nuttycyclist]

I could have my own little gripe about cycles on trains, if I wanted to.  Don't have a folder, and hence (perforce) peak hours with bike are not an option for me.

But when I do get on the train, out of peak hours (last occasion was last Saturday) - the type of train in my area is usually a class 377 ('Electrostar'), I'm stuck in a space for two or three bikes at most (the notices say two) right next to the disabled toilet, and sitting on a jump seat.  In the evenings the toilet is in constant use, largely by drunks.  Drunks argue with one another over who gets to use the loo first.  People forget to lock the curved door so it swings open whilst they're in mid-chunder (or worse!).  Little things like that are mighty off-putting!  I wish there were a better place for cyclists.  Away from the toilet.  But there: that's my moan.  Fellow Southern travellers will be familiar with all this...

At least you get a bike space!

If I get the Liverpool Street line to London for any reason, with a non-folding bike, the only place for it is to lean it against the seats.  It's more than once that I've covered the seat with chain oil/brake filth/mud/etc

[mike]

  It's more than once that I've covered the seat with chain oil/brake filth/mud/etc

so it's *you* that does it. 

[Greenbank]

If I get the Liverpool Street line to London for any reason, with a non-folding bike, the only place for it is to ...

... hold it so that it doesn't make the seats dirty.

lean it against the seats.  It's more than once that I've covered the seat with chain oil/brake filth/mud/etc

If the toilet wasn't working would you just take a dump on a seat?

[Frenchie]

As for the story, I've seen some stupid/arrogant behaviour from cyclists on trains (both the groups that lock their bikes up at the stations, and those who carry folding bikes on trains). There are idiots that use all forms of transport.

But then it seems that almost every time I'm on a commuter train there's always someone that thinks their bag has a right to take up a seat on a packed train, even when someone asks them politely to move it so they can sit down. Or someone who I'd assume is perfectly able-bodied who won't even consider giving up their seat for the eldery person or visibly pregnant woman. The usual perpetrators are the very same suits that are whinging about folding bikes.

And the same who refuse to move away even if you show up with you baby daughter in toe with a perfectly valid reservation for the seat they have made theirs... 

I agree with what GB writes above. They are idiots in both camps, because we live in a society, esp. in big cities, where nobody cares and everyone therefore tries to stamp their territory. The main issue is poor quality train services really but the results is that the service gets ever poorer partly as a result of people's attitude too.

[Greenbank]

How many bikes would disappear off the train if all stations provided adequate and secure cycle parking? If I was commuting by train I would *much* prefer to have a full size bike at each end rather than a folder (but then I don't own a folder *yet*).

[rogerzilla]

If I get the Liverpool Street line to London for any reason, with a non-folding bike, the only place for it is to ...

... hold it so that it doesn't make the seats dirty.

lean it against the seats.  It's more than once that I've covered the seat with chain oil/brake filth/mud/etc

If the toilet wasn't working would you just take a dump on a seat?

The point may be that turning the bike the other way gets people's trousers instead.  The answer is a guard's van, but they're not considered profitable on modern rolling stock.

[Frenchie]

How many bikes would disappear off the train if all stations provided adequate and secure cycle parking? If I was commuting by train I would *much* prefer to have a full size bike at each end rather than a folder (but then I don't own a folder *yet*).

I'd have my folder.

[mattc]

How many bikes would disappear off the train if all stations provided adequate and secure cycle parking? If I was commuting by train I would *much* prefer to have a full size bike at each end rather than a folder (but then I don't own a folder *yet*).

I'd have my folder.

Of course it would depend on the journey - distance from door-to-station, and whether you'd be able to park a non-folder at each end! If my local station had secure parking I'd use it for every journey (even though it's only 12minutes walk). Often it would simply be easier to walk from the destination station, so everyone will be different.

But I have often wanted to leave a bike at a station, more often than I have wanted a folder.

[Polar Bear]

For a while I commuted to Watford.  Quick walk my end, three miles the other end.  If I could have found secure bike storage I'd have left one there.   Similar when I was working in Northampton.

[Pete]

At least you get a bike space!

If I get the Liverpool Street line to London for any reason, with a non-folding bike, the only place for it is to lean it against the seats.  It's more than once that I've covered the seat with chain oil/brake filth/mud/etc

Quite right.  Shouldn't grumble I suppose, not for the rare occasions when I use the service.  In fact on the alternative Thameslink (aka FCC) trains it's just as you describe: there are tip-up seats in one carriage but these are useless if they're already occupied by passengers (try asking fellow passengers to change seats on a Saturday evening!  ).  So on those sort of trains I just put the bike in the vestibule adjacent the sliding doors, being ready promptly to swap sides if the train draws into a station with the platform on the 'wrong' side.  Nobody bothers much if I'm careful and considerate.  But if I try the same on the Electrostar, I'll get a ribbing from the guard as he motions me towards the 'proper' place...

[Fab Foodie]

Ahhh
The work of one Mr Pyle.  Couple of weeks back Apr 17th he had 2 letters published on the same day on this very topic, one in the Wail, one in the Telegraph...I know this as I was sat on a plane... hence the Wail.  Anyhow, bugger-me, Mr Pyle the next day also has another letter published (The Times IIRC) about Teacher's pay.
Mr Pyle is a professional whinger it seems...

What about push-chairs, suitcases et al? 

[nuttycyclist]

If I get the Liverpool Street line to London for any reason, with a non-folding bike, the only place for it is to ...

... hold it so that it doesn't make the seats dirty.

lean it against the seats.  It's more than once that I've covered the seat with chain oil/brake filth/mud/etc

If the toilet wasn't working would you just take a dump on a seat?

My point being that there is no place in the train to easily hold the bike.  If you stand by the doors it completely blocks them so no passengers can get on/off.  As soon as you move away from the doors you have the bike/seat conflict.

Couple this with the fact that getting on an almost empty train I have the choice of trying to stand and not fall over for 45 to 60 minutes whilst blocking the doors and entrance, or sit down and then try to hold the bike off the seat.

You'll have noticed the embarrassed smiley - do you really think I'm pleased with soiling the seats? 

[Greenbank]

My point being that there is no place in the train to easily hold the bike.  If you stand by the doors it completely blocks them so no passengers can get on/off.  As soon as you move away from the doors you have the bike/seat conflict.

Couple this with the fact that getting on an almost empty train I have the choice of trying to stand and not fall over for 45 to 60 minutes whilst blocking the doors and entrance, or sit down and then try to hold the bike off the seat.

I guess I don't have a problem standing and holding the bike, or sitting on the floor next to it (as I did on way back from Chalfont on Sunday morning, luckily it was a non-stop train), or holding the bike infront of me when I am in a seat.

If it's in the way of people getting off then I'll carry it off the train when the doors open, then put it back on the train. But I'll usually try and put it in the doorway on the opposite side of the train to the next platform if I can.

You'll have noticed the embarrassed smiley - do you really think I'm pleased with soiling the seats? 

Maybe my post could have done with a smiley too. How about an experim.....£!'%*"" NO CARRIER

[Jaded]

Guards vans would slow the loading and unloading of passengers significantly. I can't see them being introduced, unless they also have seats for the cyclists.

[Chris S]

Guards vans would slow the loading and unloading of passengers significantly. I can't see them being introduced, unless they also have seats for the cyclists.

An extra carriage that's half bike store, and half seating; plus a shower and bog  .

A cyclists carriage, basically - so we don't have to mix with the whinging commuters.

[Regulator]

Guards vans would slow the loading and unloading of passengers significantly. I can't see them being introduced, unless they also have seats for the cyclists.

Why do you say that?  I use guards vans on trains regularly (e.g. on the 'one' services in East Anglia) and it doesn't seem to have any great impact on the time spent at stops.  I just make sure I sit in (or make my way to in plenty of time for my stop) the carriage next to the guard's van.

[Greenbank]

Why do you say that?  I use guards vans on trains regularly (e.g. on the 'one' services in East Anglia) and it doesn't seem to have any great impact on the time spent at stops.  I just make sure I sit in (or make my way to in plenty of time for my stop) the carriage next to the guard's van.

Trains with guards vans are usually timetabled to have more than a cursory stop at any particular station.

In the time the doors are open on most commuter trains into London you'd only get about 2 carriages down the platform.

This is a bit different from the larger intercity style trains that will stop at most stations for at least a couple of minutes. Easily enough to walk 3 or 4 coaches length along the platform to the front of the train, open the cycle storage bit, retrieve bike, help someone else do the same, close the door and not delay the train at all.

[Gattopardo]

How many bikes would disappear off the train if all stations provided adequate and secure cycle parking? If I was commuting by train I would *much* prefer to have a full size bike at each end rather than a folder (but then I don't own a folder *yet*).

I'd have my folder.

Of course it would depend on the journey - distance from door-to-station, and whether you'd be able to park a non-folder at each end! If my local station had secure parking I'd use it for every journey (even though it's only 12minutes walk). Often it would simply be easier to walk from the destination station, so everyone will be different.

But I have often wanted to leave a bike at a station, more often than I have wanted a folder.

Send this in as an idea.

[токамак]

I'm sure that if the train companies were willing (i.e. there was enough profit to be made from it) they could provide a modern carriage that would accommodate all manner of cycles and cyclists, where they could quickly roll on and off without disrupting the rest of the train. But it ain't going to happen is it? The government (including local government such as the London Assembly) talks about mixed-mode transport as a way forward, but as usual they're talking bollocks, really they just want to keep their pals in the private sector happy.