Author Topic: Winter tyres (Read 41636 times)

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #50 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:03:19 pm »

For extensive testing, see this website http://www.icebike.com/TestingProgram.htm

clarion · « **Reply #51 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:15:22 pm »

I'm surprised that we have any studded tyres available at all in this country. For the vast majority of us in the UK, snow and ice occur as they have this week - a few days of snowfall resolving to ice, then melting. It's not like other areas of the world where there might be thick snow, or snow lying for weeks.

I would like to have a winter option, but my ideal would be for that to be three wheels so I'm not so nervous about falling again. So a recumbent trike with hub gears and studded tyres for ice would be a good option.

Let's see what Santa brings, eh? Though I don't think an HPV Scorpion will fit down the chimbley... $:-\$

Ian H · « **Reply #52 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:20:30 pm »

I never change tyres for winter, though if it's really bad I might take the ancient mtb out. My rule of thumb is that, if ice makes a noise when you ride over it, it's reasonably safe. If it's silent then proceed with caution.

clarion · « **Reply #53 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:21:48 pm »

I changed my tyres this winter - from 700x28 Paselas to 700x25 M+*

* Yes, that is the way I did it

simonp · « **Reply #54 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:23:03 pm »

The Nokian W106 I have will not cope very well with deep slush but they work very well on hard packed snow which has been polished. I felt pretty comfortable at 10mph today. The only time it went a bit pear shaped was when I drifted into a patch of snow near the centre of the road, and had to correct a bit as it dug in and ended up cycling near the edge of the road once I'd got it stable again.

If you have poor bike handling skills, then maybe that's not for you.

mattc · « **Reply #55 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:31:22 pm »

Quote from: Bridget on 23 December, 2009, 03:23:03 pm

If you have poor bike handling skills, then maybe that's not for you.

I fell off twice on P-R.

Actually I don't mind a little bit of "bike-handling", but I reckon ice-slippage is just too fast for someone like me to deal with. I'm happy to slow down to reduce the cornering loads, but I want my riding to be safe, not an agility test (especially if the journey is any more than 5 minutes i.e. too far to walk).

Greenbank · « **Reply #56 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:47:18 pm »

All I know is that with my studded tyres I made it up a gentle hill that had a normal car wheelspinning. I'd also turned left into that road at >10mph on ice with a dusting of snow and didn't have much of a problem.

There's a bit of squirming (from both front and rear tyres) that is unnerving at first (as you think the wheel is going to slide out from underneath you), but you get used to it.

It would have probably been less of a problem with less than 85psi in my tyres (622-35 Schwalbe Marathon Winter studded tyres).

pdm · « **Reply #57 on:** 23 December, 2009, 03:53:24 pm »

After almost 9 winters of every day commuting, my experience in this part of the world where snow and ice is not too unusual is that I use studded tyres on the commute about 15 days of the year.
They simply provide the extra grip needed on slippery thin compacted snow, ice under snow and, of course, black ice. You still need to be careful with your bike handling and treat the road with respect as you would with any damp, cold winter ride. You do need your slippery road techniques - leading with the rear brake, gentle cornering and hawkeyed anticipation of problems up ahead, especially on the downhills.
The studded tyres come out with fresh snow that sticks to the roads, with forecast temperatures less than about -2C and when I know there is likely to be ice.
Thicker snow needs very big tyres and big nobbles, neither of which I have...
The main downside is the 1-2kph penalty due to the extra rolling resistance and weight.
The upside is that stability on slippery surfaces and the extra workout trying to maintain speeds...

Wowbagger · « **Reply #58 on:** 23 December, 2009, 06:59:23 pm »

I'm putting the summer tyres back on tonight!

David Martin · « **Reply #59 on:** 23 December, 2009, 07:37:58 pm »

Quote from: Oscar's dad on 23 December, 2009, 02:43:14 pm

That's very useful info Tony. What we have round here is glass like hard ice and according to your experiences studded tyres don't help a great deal. Annoyingly I can't see our ice going quickly as it is still damn cold. It was -5 this morning and only about 3 deg now.

No, you are misinterpreting it. Without the studs you would. not. be. able. to. even. get. on. the. bike. With studs you can ride in something that approximates normal though is quite tenuous at times. Going round corners is not a problem as long as you don't push it too hard.

..d

simonp · « **Reply #60 on:** 23 December, 2009, 08:09:20 pm »

Quite. Wet ice tonight in my street. Stopped to let a car past. Discovered the ice too slippery to push off again. Yet I'd been riding on it with no problem. Inched forwards to where my foot had traction then set off again.

sbothwell · « **Reply #61 on:** 24 December, 2009, 12:08:33 am »

I got a pair of marathon Winters last year, and left them on until about March. As others have mentioned, they appear to work best on compacted snow, frost, thin layer of fresh snow or smooth ice. I find myself going faster uphill than on the flat/downhill with them on. You do need to take more care than normal, and they squirm a bit until a stud bites sometimes but they slow down most potential dumpings sufficiently to give you a chance of recovery, whereas with normal tyres you'd be looking at your elbow wondering where that hole in your jacket just came from

.

The only conditions i've found the marathon winters don't deal so well with is deep fresh snow where you really need big nobblies (the winters have quite a shallow tread pattern compared to other spiked tyres from what i can see) and on semi-compacted snow where maybe just one car has driven over it - then you get the snow breaking apart under your contact area and its very squirmy. I'm not sure if any tyre could deal with that - maybe a wider one with longer spikes might have a chance.

simonp · « **Reply #62 on:** 24 December, 2009, 06:37:26 am »

This morning was riding across sheet ice which has formed after light rain on top of compacted snow. A smooth, though uneven, polished, glistening surface. Setting off took a leap of faith but it wasn't so bad once I was rolling. However surface changing from ice to slush unnerved me enough that I continued in a straight line onto a dropped kerb. Having two very heavy panniers and a huge rucksack didn't help.

tonycollinet · « **Reply #63 on:** 24 December, 2009, 03:16:38 pm »

Towards the end of the ride this morning - did about a mile on mostly sheet/transparent ice. Had a couple of the squirmy moments mentioned, but stayed upright.

I was below 10mph all the way though, and even then it kept my heart rate up

tonycollinet · « **Reply #64 on:** 24 December, 2009, 03:21:56 pm »

Quote from: Oscar's dad on 23 December, 2009, 02:43:14 pm

That's very useful info Tony. What we have round here is glass like hard ice and according to your experiences studded tyres don't help a great deal. Annoyingly I can't see our ice going quickly as it is still damn cold. It was -5 this morning and only about 3 deg now.

As stated above - they make a huge difference compared with normal tyres - ie it is possible to ride a bike without being dumped every 5 yards. However, in those conditions it is still very un-nerving. It is possible I just haven't tried enough to test them, and gain confidence.

As stated in my previous post, I did a mile this morning on glass Ice, and although it was slow progress, I stayed upright.

The MOST IMPORTANT point, is they allow me to start a ride, even though I know there is a risk of snow/slush/ice. They give me confidence on all but the worst ice conditions, and without them I'd simply stay at home.

drossall · « **Reply #65 on:** 24 December, 2009, 03:56:15 pm »

My Marathon Winters arrived today from DotBike, which is pretty impressive in Christmas week for a product that was out of stock when I ordered four days ago. Now all I need is a chance to try them $:-\$

Wowbagger · « **Reply #66 on:** 24 December, 2009, 04:01:14 pm »

Quote from: drossall on 24 December, 2009, 03:56:15 pm

My Marathon Winters arrived today from DotBike, which is pretty impressive in Christmas week for a product that was out of stock when I ordered four days ago. Now all I need is a chance to try them $:-\$

Next winter perhaps...

MacB · « **Reply #67 on:** 24 December, 2009, 07:29:35 pm »

Quote from: drossall on 24 December, 2009, 03:56:15 pm

My Marathon Winters arrived today from DotBike, which is pretty impressive in Christmas week for a product that was out of stock when I ordered four days ago. Now all I need is a chance to try them $:-\$

mine arrived today, from Dotbike as well, and I've just done 16 miles on them. I found, them easy to fit, I didn't need levers. Chose to pump them to 75psi, ratings are 35-85psi. On ice they were good, I passed a guy wheelspinning uphill on a MTB, I hadn't even noticed the ice. What they don't like is loose slush and there was plenty of that, but I stayed upright. This was on MOD roads near here so no gritting and little traffic. My first thought was that I was falling, but you still try to compensate. Amazingly the tyre gripped, at an angle I wouldn't have expected, and I recovered. But with over compensation, cue a slalom style for about 40 yards, with me expecting to fall each time. I then proceeded more slowly, was still a bit squirmy but very controllable.

On the open road I really didn't notice any rolling difference between them and the M+'s they replaced. My computer showed an average of just under 13mph for the 16 miles. this would have been closer to 14mph without the slushy MOD roads. I was taking it easy for the breaking in period so would expect to be able to see averages between 14.5 and 15mph on normal road riding. I found them comfortable enough and, with those speeds, will be quite happy to run them now until Spring.

They are a bit noisy but not enough to bother me. I can understand that someone going from a light fast tyre would be disappointed. From an M+ 35mm the difference is minimal and they're actually lighter.

nuttycyclist · « **Reply #68 on:** 24 December, 2009, 08:29:03 pm »

I'm finding this interesting reading.

I have never ridden on studs, and never found the need. However this year I'm getting tempted.

Until now I've found knobbly MTB tyres enough, and on short sections of ice I've fallen off/walked.

It looks like these winter tyres will be a downgrade. OK on ice but shite on what I normally ride on. What tyres are good for winter? i.e. knobbly for snow and slush, but studded in case of ice.

mattc · « **Reply #69 on:** 24 December, 2009, 08:35:16 pm »

Nutty,
I think if you look at sites like the Peter White one, there are studded tyres with more knobbly patterns. These would be better on the loose stuff (but worse on tarmac).

I think the Schwalbes are aimed at tarmac/ice/hard snow mix. (and happen to be the cheapest easy to buy in UK)

You lot seem to get big dumps of snow, in between pretty mild weather overall; this might influence your choice. I worry more about the icy days that crop up throughout winter, but we don't get much actual snow.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #70 on:** 24 December, 2009, 09:05:24 pm »

Quote from: mattc on 24 December, 2009, 08:35:16 pm

You lot seem to get big dumps of snow, in between pretty mild weather overall; this might influence your choice. I worry more about the icy days that crop up throughout winter, but we don't get much actual snow.

When we get snow, it normally comes from the north-east and tends to hang around with Siberian temperatures to match. Compared to Mrs. Wow's mother's place (Stalybridge - Pennine foothills) mostly their snow comes from the west and tends to be short-lived but they get it far more frequently and usually in larger quantities. I reckon that we probably get colder winters than they do, but much much drier. Given that the bitterest winds tend to be easterlies, they've usually had their teeth drawn by the time they cross the Pennines.

Pretty much all our most significant falls come from the NE - 1962/63 and 1987 were the heaviest, but the latter was very localised to this area: villages around Southend were cut of for a week and for the whole of that week (Jan 12th I think), Southend recorded the UK's lowest maximum daily temperature. Ice floes were washed up onto the beach, apparently.

I well remember Iain McCaskell's forecast of that blizzard: "Don't be fooled by this warm front - it's about as warm as a polar bear's packed lunch." Brilliant! I recorded -14°C at about 7 p.m. on the Sunday just before the heaviest snow fell.

teethgrinder · « **Reply #71 on:** 25 December, 2009, 01:26:44 pm »

Quote from: mattc on 24 December, 2009, 08:35:16 pm

Nutty,
I think if you look at sites like the Peter White one, there are studded tyres with more knobbly patterns. These would be better on the loose stuff (but worse on tarmac).

I would go for knobbly studded tyres rather than road tyres. Knobbly tyres are better in snow and slush than road tyres with hardly any tread, comparatively speaking. But when the knobs are on ice, then they're no good in my experience and that's when the studs would be handy. The Winters seem to only really work best when it's either tarmac or solid ice, but not with snow or slush, so you have tyres that work in 3 out of 2 situations. Knobbly tyres will work in all 3 situations. They might be a bit slower, but it'd be quicker, or at least easier than walking.

andrew_s · « **Reply #72 on:** 25 December, 2009, 10:35:17 pm »

Knobbly (ish) studded, Wiggle

Even knobblier studded tyres, Dolgellau, and in 700c

Oaky · « **Reply #73 on:** 25 December, 2009, 10:43:22 pm »

Quote from: teethgrinder on 25 December, 2009, 01:26:44 pm

Quote from: mattc on 24 December, 2009, 08:35:16 pm
Nutty,
I think if you look at sites like the Peter White one, there are studded tyres with more knobbly patterns. These would be better on the loose stuff (but worse on tarmac).

I would go for knobbly studded tyres rather than road tyres. Knobbly tyres are better in snow and slush than road tyres with hardly any tread, comparatively speaking. But when the knobs are on ice, then they're no good in my experience and that's when the studs would be handy. The Winters seem to only really work best when it's either tarmac or solid ice, but not with snow or slush, so you have tyres that work in 3 out of 2 situations. Knobbly tyres will work in all 3 situations. They might be a bit slower, but it'd be quicker, or at least easier than walking.

I was going to ask "but would you do a 200 on them?" but then realised who I was replying to

.

The question i need to ask before buying is something along the lines of "which of the knobbly/studded now/ice tyre options would anybody sane use on their bike to do a dec/jan/feb 200(or+) when they would have DNS'ed without said tyres given the conditions?"

Or are they all silly options for distances over 30 miles or so?

teethgrinder · « **Reply #74 on:** 25 December, 2009, 10:59:59 pm »

Quote from: andrew_s on 25 December, 2009, 10:35:17 pm

Knobbly (ish) studded, Wiggle

Even knobblier studded tyres, Dolgellau, and in 700c

Thanks

Those Continental ones look just the ticket.

Quote from: Oaky on 25 December, 2009, 10:43:22 pm

I was going to ask "but would you do a 200 on them?" but then realised who I was replying to .

The question i need to ask before buying is something along the lines of "which of the knobbly/studded now/ice tyre options would anybody sane use on their bike to do a dec/jan/feb 200(or+) when they would have DNS'ed without said tyres given the conditions?"

Or are they all silly options for distances over 30 miles or so?

They're jolly heavy tyres! So they'd slow you down a lot. Plus judging from what I've read here, you still have to be carefull using them, so even if you can ride fast, you might not be safe if you do.
I'm not thinking of Audaxing with them, more for going shopping and a lot of arsing about on the mountain bike, then see how I get on with them before I go on bigger adventures. A 200 with knoblies on the mountain bike takes long enough as it is. (It must be all those gears that slow me down

)
I can't say whether I could do a 200 with them when the roads are all covered in ice until I've tried them.

PDM seems to be doing well with his/hers though, with a 15mph commute over the Peak District

Author Topic: Winter tyres (Read 41636 times)

simonp

simonp

simonp