PBP - Reflective vests?

[Greenbank]

Other than actual volume of retro-reflective material, I'm just wondering, in loose terms, what other properties have to be met and how you go about approved to put the certification label on a garment.

It's a bit of catch 22 situation of trying to work out whether the creating a suitable alternative is acheivable in order to make it worth purchasing the standard in the first place.

The cost of getting a design/prototype certificatied would be huge. In the order of thousands probably.

[mattc]

Other than actual volume of retro-reflective material, I'm just wondering, in loose terms, what other properties have to be met and how you go about approved to put the certification label on a garment.

It's a bit of catch 22 situation of trying to work out whether the creating a suitable alternative is acheivable in order to make it worth purchasing the standard in the first place.

Let me try to help you.

What alternative are you looking to create (that doesn't exist in the market place)?

Not surprisingly, a lot of riders would like to carry on wearing the same jerseys/jackets they use for 1000s of km a year (without being hit by motorists who didn't actually see them early enough) on PBP.

This seems rather like the h****t debate: some users are convinced that they are no trouble & no inconvenience whatsoever.  Seems a bit blinkered to me.

I'm resigned to using something that's already certified, and am now just considering which will be the least hassle.

[EdinburghFixed]

It won't be possible to get anything certified. The cost would be immense (I doubt you could do it for mere thousands).

Of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from cutting labels off existing garments and transferring them, but it seems unlikely that whatever you're putting them on would look remotely the part, if it was significantly better than existing off-the-shelf garments anyway.

If I can't get hold of one of those gilets, a mesh vest to EN1150, carefully taken in to hug the torso and minimise cross-section is what I'm going for.

You can get the one linked above in pink. I always think if you're going to look daft you should go all the way!

[The Seldom Killer]

Well that was a bust.

I was hoping that it would be possible to create something that used the aforementioned Lumatwill from Dashing Tweeds. Alas there seems to be no escaping the requirement for a flourescent background colour to a garment. I can't see that happening with tweed.

The good news is that you can just blag a librarian to printing this stuff for you at a price far less than the cost of buying it from source. This is under the proviso that you don't use it for commercial interests, which I won't. Mostly because I can't.

I'm now down to hoping that a Sam Browne will remain acceptable to the PBP authorities.

[The Seldom Killer]

This seems rather like the h****t debate: some users are convinced that they are no trouble & no inconvenience whatsoever.  Seems a bit blinkered to me.

I'm resigned to using something that's already certified, and am now just considering which will be the least hassle.

I'm now intrigued by what the h****t debate is.

Now that I've exhausted all reasonable options, I too am resigned to selecting from the existing market. Just going to find the most modest product that I can.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I'm now down to hoping that a Sam Browne will remain acceptable to the PBP authorities.

Unlikely (isn't there something on the PBP website rejecting Sam Browne belts?) but I also would prefer to stick with a Sam Browne belt.

[Greenbank]

Doubt it, the reflective vest requirement isn't a PBP requirement, it's a requirement of French law when cycling outside of built up areas at night.

The PBP pages say this:

Paris-Brest-Paris 2011

"A reflective vest or crossbelt or reflective garment MUST be worn when riding at night (this equiment must be presented at the cycle check)."

but I think that's just copied from 2007 and they haven't updated it based on the new law.

[The Seldom Killer]

I was expecting that. I think they're due to update in January, after the official presentation. I'll wait until after than before I make a decision on what to wear.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

From the brochure http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/pbp2011/en/download/PLAQUETTE-GB.pdf

"According to French law, a reflective vest is mandatory when riding at night. Alternatives like a reflective sash or belt are not acceptable as substitutes. Reflective ankle bands are recommended as an additional safety feature"

[EdinburghFixed]

From the brochure http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/pbp2011/en/download/PLAQUETTE-GB.pdf

"According to French law, a reflective vest is mandatory when riding at night. Alternatives like a reflective sash or belt are not acceptable as substitutes. Reflective ankle bands are recommended as an additional safety feature"

I've heard if you just dip your entire body in luminous paint, that's it - you're completely safe.

[urban_biker]

Don't you have to leave a small gap in the paint just above you backside? So you skin can still breathe? Or is that just an Goldfinger urban legend.

[Somnolent]

Urban myths for urban bikers (at least if you believe some the websites I've visited recently - purely for research purposes of course)

But ..... Gold lame boob tubes are not acceptable AFAIK - however tightly stretched,

[The Seldom Killer]

Hummers will be diappointed.

[JStone]

I'm not sure whether the reflective bibs modelled by these ladies of Spain meet the required Euronorm and would satisfy the French authorities 

[STMS]

Surely this fits the bill, not keen on them myself, Do they alert the old dears or are you a target for w*nkers.
Madison Hi Viz en471

[Karla]

Do you mean this?

It does but the point is that a number of us want to take the skimpiest, most lightweight and packable piece of mesh that we can get away with, which that isn't.  We may alternatively be prepared to go for a proper cycling gilet that complies, but we don't want to spend nearly £20 on a dustman's garment that is flappy when being worn and relatively bulky when stowed in a saddlebag.

[Feline]

This Gilet looks quite good plus GILET EN CONFORMITE AVEC LA NORME 1150 and this site will ship outside France Gilet SECURITE jaune sans manches - CYCLES ET SPORTS

Also there is a site that will ship that orange coloured 74 euro one for 9.95 euro postage to the UK GILET LS2 FLUO VISTA ORANGE [1031 -] 74.00€ Partycycle.com

I quite like the look of this Mavic one although it is spendy at 85 euros! M Gilet Vision Vest, Vestes - Rue du vélo, la boutique de vente en ligne d'accessoires vélo but is it also available at CRC free postage Mavic Vision Vest Winter 2010 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

I should add that I am in training for PBP .... in 2015!

[Greenbank]

Do you mean this?

It does but the point is that a number of us want to take the skimpiest, most lightweight and packable piece of mesh that we can get away with, which that isn't.  We may alternatively be prepared to go for a proper cycling gilet that complies, but we don't want to spend nearly £20 on a dustman's garment that is flappy when being worn and relatively bulky when stowed in a saddlebag.

Pick two:-

a) Inexpensive
b) lightweight/easy-to-stow/not-flappy
c) EN standards compliant

[Karla]

If the pound shop doesn't throw up anything good, I may well go with one of these Polaris gilets.  £15 for what looks like a decent gilet doesn't seem bad.

Do you mean this?

It does but the point is that a number of us want to take the skimpiest, most lightweight and packable piece of mesh that we can get away with, which that isn't.  We may alternatively be prepared to go for a proper cycling gilet that complies, but we don't want to spend nearly £20 on a dustman's garment that is flappy when being worn and relatively bulky when stowed in a saddlebag.

Pick two:-

a) Inexpensive
b) lightweight/easy-to-stow/not-flappy
c) EN standards compliant

[Greenbank]

If the pound shop doesn't throw up anything good, I may well go with one of these Polaris gilets.  £15 for what looks like a decent gilet doesn't seem bad.

Exactly, that satisfies (a) and (b) nicely, but having read the EN1170 and EN471 standards I'd be very surprised if that is actually compliant. What will happen at PBP if you turn up with a non-compliant gilet is anyone's guess.

[Ian H]

I have made enquiry about this, also from Polaris-
http://www.polaris-apparel.co.uk//category-7268/product-20291//NiteViz-Tabbard,-Small.html

[Panoramix]

For those that are bored enough to be interested in French laws:

Code de la route : Cyclistes et gilets de haute visibilité - Blog du code et de la sécurité routière

Basically anything that says EN1170 or EN471 will do.

For the gendarme to check the label you would have to try really hard, i guess it is a bit like the kitemark on lights in the UK!!!

May be we need an AUK award for the first to achieve this!

Edit: For those who need a reason to worry pedal reflectors are compulsory in France. You are probably more likely to get done for this than for a non certified High viz!

[Ian H]

Edit: For those who need a reason to worry pedal reflectors are compulsory in France. You are probably more likely to get done for this than for a non certified High viz!

As they are in the UK. Not many people know that.

[The Seldom Killer]

What's the advice for clipless riders then. Splash of scotchtape and extra in the bag incase it deteriorates?

[EdinburghFixed]

It's also an offence if your pedal reflectors are obscured at any point, for example if you have panniers fitted.

You can get legal reflectors for some types of clipless pedal, but 99.9% of clipless riders are committing an offence after lighting up time (irrespective of whether you've got EN471 motorway workman trousers on or not).