Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 163628 times)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #825 on: January 26, 2011, 11:32:42 am »
Does anyone use the path for cycling?
I ride past it every morning and I dont think I have seen anyone cycling yet :-\
Plenty of shit-machines and their walkers though  :hand:
When I walk my dog in the morning I see a few commuters and a few school children riding, all male though.

It just seems a massive effort/expense of behalf of the council for little return.
Maybe they should spend some more money advertising it

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #826 on: February 26, 2011, 12:18:09 pm »

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #827 on: February 27, 2011, 09:14:44 pm »
Anybody seen Cuckoo Corner recently?






Welcome to Southend NO CYCLING Town.  A town where millions have been spent on major projects designed to improve traffic flow.

It is possible to cycle into Cuckoo Corner from Manners Way, but beware if you do as there are Cycling Prohibited signs on every single exit.  You can't cycle off of the roundabout!    (It'll make a fantastic long distance ride.  Enter roundabout, do not exit, continue for x laps until exhausted).

Please note that you can't cycle onto the roundabout from Princes Avenue.


<bangs head against wall>

I'm sure it'll all be explained to us when the Council do what they promise and bring us the plans for this scheme during its design phase.


As Brighton hits the media ridicule for spending a fortune to remove a cycle path, I wonder if Southend's remedial expenditure, all a cost to the tax payer, will ever come to light?   (any media folk on here?)

I give up.   I really really do  :facepalm:

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #828 on: February 27, 2011, 11:09:49 pm »
Do the signs apply to the road or the pavement?

Seen today. No parking ticket. Not so smart.


Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #829 on: February 27, 2011, 11:23:09 pm »
I'm sure the Council will claim that they apply to the pavements (where you aren't allowed to cycle anyway  :facepalm:) and have been used to mark the end of their new shared use cycle path.

Just look at the one in Victoria Avenue though (my 2nd photo).  It's on the kerb, 7 or 8 feet away from the pavement and separated from it by a shrubbery.

The sign they should have looked for was the "end of cycle path" sign.


Using the signs as they have will have motorists yelling at cyclists for riding where not allowed - as they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths (see your link above).

Simonb

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #830 on: February 28, 2011, 12:46:20 am »
they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths

So ignore them.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #831 on: February 28, 2011, 12:57:10 am »
they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths

So ignore them.

Oh I do  ;D      Occasionally you get a real violent idiot swerving at you and with passengers leaning out of the windows trying to push you onto the path, but I've got away with avoiding that so far.   It's just a fact of life of living here in Southend.  I wonder if the council will mention it as part of their bid to become a city?


I just can't believe that a council claiming funding to create a cycle town can spend it in erecting "No Cycling" signs.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #832 on: February 28, 2011, 06:59:01 am »
I'm sure the Council will claim that they apply to the pavements (where you aren't allowed to cycle anyway  :facepalm:) and have been used to mark the end of their new shared use cycle path.

Just look at the one in Victoria Avenue though (my 2nd photo).  It's on the kerb, 7 or 8 feet away from the pavement and separated from it by a shrubbery.

The sign they should have looked for was the "end of cycle path" sign.


Using the signs as they have will have motorists yelling at cyclists for riding where not allowed - as they already shout at us for riding alongside the cycle paths (see your link above).

Wrong signs = no legal force.  Plus I'll place money they're not backed up by the correct Traffic Management Order...
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #833 on: February 28, 2011, 07:52:31 am »
Quote
just can't believe that a council claiming funding to create a cycle town can spend it in erecting "No Cycling" signs.

I wouldnt use Victoria Ave to get over the 127, its just to busy nowadays. But that No Cycling sign looks very much as though it applies to the road  :(
Like you say I am sure so bod will be along soon from the council to explain it all  :-\
With the new sainsbury development in the pipe line that whole area is going to be a nightmare.
Anyway when is the three years up, you know when Anna Waite said the town would be transformed for cyclists, there can not be long left now  :(

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #834 on: February 28, 2011, 08:29:53 am »
Does the council actually have the power to ban cycling on sections of public road?

Maybee we should get a big group of cyclists together and all ride on mass onto the roundabout and just take it over. Completly block it until the police and newspapers turn up.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #835 on: February 28, 2011, 08:35:43 am »
Does the council actually have the power to ban cycling on sections of public road?

Maybee we should get a big group of cyclists together and all ride on mass onto the roundabout and just take it over. Completly block it until the police and newspapers turn up.

Wouldn't work. From what I've seen the vast majority of Southend's 'cyclists' think they are only allowed to use the seafront.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #836 on: February 28, 2011, 11:29:46 pm »
Perhaps combine a CM with a FNRTTC?

Unfortunately, I think you're right Clandy. Cyclists do seem segregated into different cycling groups and unwilling to unite and kick up much of a fuss.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #837 on: February 28, 2011, 11:33:04 pm »
Does the council actually have the power to ban cycling on sections of public road?

Maybee we should get a big group of cyclists together and all ride on mass onto the roundabout and just take it over. Completly block it until the police and newspapers turn up.

Wouldn't work. From what I've seen the vast majority of Southend's 'cyclists' think they are only allowed to use the seafront.

Q) Why do they think they are only allowed to use the seafront?
A) Because the council have fallen into the usual trap of believing that constructing paths is the only option.  They have only really constructed this high profile path*.

Just think about how good Southend could have been if investment had been made in 20mph zones, plentiful signage of routes through quiet roads, etc etc etc





* As opposed to the fantastic path alongside Royal Artillery Way, which is an excellent example of how it could be done.  Trouble is it's not obvious as it's set back from the road and runs behind houses.  You need to know it's there in order to use it.

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #838 on: March 01, 2011, 10:53:01 pm »
Have there been to any meetings of the cycle forum recently? It seems like months and months since the last one. Maybe they've scrapped them.
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #839 on: March 01, 2011, 11:07:47 pm »
The last meeting I was invited to, but couldn't attend due to work, was September.

I have been promised by Paul Mathieson that in order to make the project better the frequency of the meetings will increase and become more regular so that we can review their designs.



Does "more frequent" equal "cancelled"?

Why does "empty promises" ring bells?

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #840 on: March 02, 2011, 09:59:54 am »
The first time I drove along Priory Crescent after the white lines had been painted on the new road surface, I noticed that the "dropped" kerb up which cyclists were expected to leave the carriageway actually was a barrier a good 2" high. I emailed Colette Kemp (Road Safety Officer) and the next time I went someone had put a botched-up tarmac ramp in, which hopefully will be enough to prevent cyclists coming a dreadful cropper as their front wheel gets knocked to one side as they attempt to make the turn onto the cycle path.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #841 on: March 02, 2011, 10:39:07 am »
Thanks for that wowbagger.  I spotted the "tarmac spillage" at the weekend and chuckled to myself that they'd made such an awful cockup. This isn't the first time they've had to put tarmac ramps down because they failed to install dropped kerbs that provided a flush surface transition as called for in the guidelines.


When will they learn?

fuzzy (retd.) AAGE

  • SWMBO's Toy Boy.
  • Apprentice Leathery Old Git
    • The Secret Cyclist blog
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #842 on: March 02, 2011, 11:01:26 am »
Thanks for that wowbagger.  I spotted the "tarmac spillage" at the weekend and chuckled to myself that they'd made such an awful cockup. This isn't the first time they've had to put tarmac ramps down because they failed to install dropped kerbs that provided a flush surface transition as called for in the guidelines.


When will they learn?

When litigation resulting from their incompetence ends up costing a fortune?
Quote from: tatanab
The mark of a true cyclist - prepared to try anything on offer

If it ain't bad for you it ain't worth doing

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #843 on: March 02, 2011, 11:12:54 am »
Anyone know who 'BD' is? Are they a CTC member?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #844 on: March 02, 2011, 12:28:58 pm »

When will they learn?

No need to, they got what they wanted, the money.

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #845 on: March 02, 2011, 06:31:58 pm »
I have just sent an email, using Nutty's photo.

"At the last forum it was stated that the frequency of the meetings would increase and become more regular so that we can review the designs of the 4 ongoing major road projects in the town.

As there hasn't been a meeting since (to which I've been invited) can I assume that "more frequent" is Southend Council code for "Cancelled"?

Obviously the input of cyclists is not heeded or welcome so I presume that is why no further meetings have taken place.

I leave you with a photo of the approach to Cuckoo Corner which I think sums up the Council's real feeling towards cyclists. A fine example for a "cycling town"."


Those of you on the mailing list will have been copied.
 
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #846 on: March 04, 2011, 02:41:21 pm »
It's not on the Echo website, but yesterday's paper has a full page spread about how the council is to spend £75,000 in re-marking the central parking bays so that you can drive into them (instead of driving past and reversing in), and also add disabled bays and a taxi rank at the same time.

I've an outstanding letter to the Council, which does comment on the seafront fiasco, but I need to check a couple of facts over the weekend.  I will be including a question as to whether when they re-paint the bays they'll leave the carriageway wide enough for cars to overtake cyclists (as opposed to the current 3.25m width which is on the boundary of the width that DfT say should be avoided).

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #847 on: March 04, 2011, 05:18:50 pm »
It's not on the Echo website, but yesterday's paper has a full page spread about how the council is to spend £75,000 in re-marking the central parking bays so that you can drive into them (instead of driving past and reversing in), and also add disabled bays and a taxi rank at the same time.


Now on the Echo site

Parking bays fiasco will cost £75,000 to put right (From Echo)

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #848 on: March 04, 2011, 07:30:32 pm »
No apologies from Waite, blaming someone else as usual.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #849 on: March 06, 2011, 10:20:19 am »
I've just been reviewing various emails from last year concerning the Western Esplanade track…

9th March 2010, Cllr Waite:

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail me and sincerely apologise for not having responded sooner.
I think that thee may be a misunderstanding, there is no intention to change the existing cycle path to the east, other than perhaps in the light of your comments, but my comments were in respect of the new path to go in to the west. This sector will be both lower than the promenade and higher than the carriage way and it will be fairly regularly defined by sating planting etc from the promenade. Also given the parking along this stretch I do not anticipate that speeding will be a problem, though clearly there will always be some that do speed.
A off road route does encourage more cyclists to use it and indeed numbers using the eastern section steadily grow.
Clearly if you wish to cycle on the road you may still do so as there is nothing to prevent this but some do feel happier off road especially those with children or those returning to cycling after a long period etc. The seafront route is part of the sustrans routes and will by March 2011 link from Chalkwell to the MOD, the final Southend sector west to Hadleigh is currently being considered and funding sourced.
 The cycle track is considered wide enough for leisure cycling, those wishing to ‘push on’ can clearly use the carriageway and many do.
 Crossing in front of cyclists is always going to be a problem just as a pedestrian may walk out in front of a motorist. It is the responsibility of the cyclist to anticipate such occurrences and to cycle accordingly. However I will look to see if we can improve signage to help deter this.
 It is not possible to reduce car parking, this parking is vital for the seafront users and there is adequate parking elsewhere but not a surplus.
 I many European cities there is far greater cycling culture, but this has grown over time and indeed cyclists are allowed to used the pavements in some instances with all the problems associated with that.
I will be passing your comments to officers who will consider your points and will respond directly to you.
 I have visited Copenhagen and several other cycling cities and yes they are models that we aspire to but we are far further back than they and what we are doing is making the similar sort of start that they did some 30 years ago.



07 April 2010, Mehmet Mazahr:

"Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN."

"The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to."