Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 176354 times)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #725 on: September 11, 2010, 09:37:54 am »
Yes, they could have taken more care, but really, making a granny run for it?  That's something I would be proud of, yes?
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #726 on: September 11, 2010, 10:11:12 am »
Yes, they could have taken more care, but really, making a granny run for it?  That's something I would be proud of, yes?

'Making a granny run for it'? She was well clear by the time I reached them and she chose to walk a little quicker as she cleared the track. Still, at least I didn't scream at them for what they had done.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #727 on: September 11, 2010, 10:20:01 am »
Well, I'm not always as good with pedestrians as I would like to be either.  :)
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #728 on: September 11, 2010, 04:20:04 pm »
I've been clotheslined by a dog lead. A much bigger dog too. It'd have to be really, that's one tiny dog in the clip ;D
No danger or damage, it was probably the hound that came off worst, then the owner. More comical than dangerous really, but not good. It could possibly do some minor damage to your bike I suppose.

Anyone notice how dog walkers tend to call their dog over to them instead of stepping over to their dog when they have their dog on a long lead with them on one sde of the cyclepath and their dog on the other? ::-) ;D

To be fair to Clandy with the old lady, some people do tend to run for it when they see an approaching cyclist. I don't think he forced her to make a dash, it's just the way people react sometimes.
Clandy was close to the lady and she saw him at the last minute, not long enough to calculate his speed, or should I say, lack of speed.
It also saddens me when peds jump out of my way and apologose for "being in my way" I assume.
I never really know what to say to indicate that they've nothing to apologise for. I usualy just shrug my shoulders and say it's OK.
I'm sure that the reason some people complin that you don't have a bell is born from their own (wrongly felt) guilt of "being in your way."

I'm convinced that it all comes from the car culture where everyone must get out of the way of cars. :(

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #729 on: September 11, 2010, 04:44:23 pm »
I'm with you there teethgrinder, when as a cyclist you are on a shared path (yes the above clip they are not) you have to give way to the peds.

Many times I have happily stayed behind waiting for a gap where I can get past them with plenty of space. To have them turn around, jump out of the way pulling each other to the side, with the look that they are about to get run over.

If only they had paid attention to what is going around them and had seen me 2-3 min before when I slowed down to their speed and  happily waited behind them.

But that comes probably from the people on bikes who cycle on the pavement, RLJ and use the Ealing SKYride as a racing track when it was packed with 5,000+ people and no room for doing so.
#bollockstobrexit

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #730 on: September 11, 2010, 05:12:35 pm »
Many times I have happily stayed behind waiting for a gap where I can get past them with plenty of space. To have them turn around, jump out of the way pulling each other to the side, with the look that they are about to get run over.

If only they had paid attention to what is going around them and had seen me 2-3 min before when I slowed down to their speed and  happily waited behind them.


I sometimes get that when I'm coming towards them. You'd think that I would just ride into them as fast as I can sometimes. They tend not to look very far ahead either. I often ahve to get very close before they realise that I'm there, so they don't realise that I've allready slowed down. You do get selfish tossers on bikes though, who just barge through and some will even shout at people. :(

I treat all cyclepaths as shared use. If it means I have to cycle on the pedestrian bit to give a pedestrian walking on the cyclepath, then so be it. Cyclepaths are nothing more than legalised pavement cycling. Pavements are for pedestrians.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #731 on: September 13, 2010, 12:08:02 pm »
I'm with Tewdric on this. I've been puzzled by this thread for a long time, in particular the expectation from some posters that a cycle lane through a busy area should somehow (and uniquely) be clear and fast, when the users of the road and the pavement all have to compromise and adjust their movements.

All users (road/pavement/path) should compromise and adjust their movements.  This is my firm believe.

The issue we have here is that pedestrians meander all around the pavement in random directions, which is fine other than they spill over onto the narrow cycle track where the cyclists have insufficient room to adjust their movements (other than slow down).  But on the other side of the cycle track we have motor traffic still blasting along at 30mph (I'm down there at commuting times, not the stationary gridlocked weekends).

The motor traffic is not compromising and adjusting its movements, and woe betide any cyclist who dares ride in the road to avoid pedestrian conflict!  Cyclist in the road = major abuse for impeding the holy motor car.

It sounds like one of the main problems with the new facility is that it has now forced cyclists into a choice between using a facility not fit for the purpose of getting from A to B (but fine for pootling families), or using the road and being subjected to closer, more dangerous overtakes (due to the carriageway now being narrower than it was) and aggravation from motorists who can't see why they're not using the "perfectly good cycle lane over there".

Well summarised. 

Personally I don't think that the cycle track is fine for pootling families either, and certainly wouldn't take my niece/nephew down there.  It's too narrow and too close to fast motor traffic.   If LTN2/08 had been followed and the path had had a minimum width of 3m then it would have been more suitable.  But for a pootling individual, it's usable with care.


Southend is a cycle town, but by creating this path it has catered for a very small target population of cyclists; whilst making conditions for the majority of cyclists worse.

A better scheme could have been introduced here, and we gave the Council three suggestions back in 2008 which they appear to have ignored.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #732 on: September 13, 2010, 12:13:47 pm »
Not wanting to be the bringer of bad news but
Just been out for a morning ride and on the return I chanced the seafront path heading towards Chalkwell. As I aproached The Arch's cafe's Shorefield Road junction there was four of five police cars around, the cycle path taped off and the police photographers out in force. I have no idea what has happened, but it looks as if it has involved the cycle path and it didnt look good news.

Was this just east of the arches, where the road surface goes from tarmac to the beige anti-skid?

I was down there recently and noticed that there's red paint there similar to the stuff the police use to mark evidence spots following a collision.  Lots of little dots on the path (as usually used to mark blood/debris), followed by a dotted line which could have indicated the path of a vehicle tyre onto the track and then back onto the road again.


I noticed some more, possibly indicating another incident, nearly at Shorefield Road, and then further west (opposite the shelter) what appeared to be markings indicating the four corners of where a vehicle had stopped - on the track.


WTF is going on down there?  Have there been 3 separate collisions marked out?

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #733 on: September 13, 2010, 12:35:35 pm »
This is what I saw:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/N2tbFhWePY4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/N2tbFhWePY4&rel=1</a>

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #734 on: September 13, 2010, 01:39:43 pm »
Looks like they're measuring the second set of marks I mentioned.   The first set were behind (and under) their parked cars.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #735 on: September 13, 2010, 04:02:27 pm »
Quote
Was this just east of the arches, where the road surface goes from tarmac to the beige anti-skid?

Thats where I saw the police with measuring gear. Me and 2_Flat_Erics went back the next day to have a good look and on the zig-zag closest to the kerb was lengthy skid mark, not a stand out mark but quite clearly visable if you looked closely. I would imagine it could have come from an abs brake on a different surface, the white paint in this case. If you look at Clandys video you can see some of the mark. Starts at 13seconds and ends at the red cone.

I am pro cycle paths in general but in this case the cycle path is shit, no matter how safe a cyclist you can describe yourself as and how safe you ride whilst on it there is always a problem. When I head in that direction at busy times I now cut off at the amusements and take Lucy Road then through the town centre.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #736 on: September 14, 2010, 01:34:07 pm »
In today's Echo:

'Andy Lewis, the council's corporate director for enterprise tourism and the environment said [of the new narrower road along the City Beach], "This gives a psychological impression to drivers they have less space and they tend to reduce their speed, though we've removed the actual traffic-calming measures. It reduces their speed, but makes the flow of traffic smoother."
Around the junction of Marine Parade and Hartington Road is a raised 'shared space' area which pedestrians will use as well as cars.
There will be no designated cycle path like along Western Esplanade, but cyclists travelling between Thorpe Bay and Westcliff will be able to use either the road or the promenade.'


No cycle path at all has to be better than the Western Esplanade debacle.


Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #737 on: September 15, 2010, 01:59:07 pm »
Result!


Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #738 on: September 15, 2010, 02:07:44 pm »
Result!
It looks like a different company, perhaps picking up different bins.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #739 on: September 16, 2010, 10:21:27 am »
The Greenway still has loose pea shingle on the Vic. Ave. - Prit. Chs. bend.
They are now putting wooden bollards either side of the ramps, approx. 1000x200x200mm in size, with a pre carved round hole for a small, possibly shared path, sign.

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #740 on: September 16, 2010, 06:43:48 pm »
Oh, fecking hell no!    >:( No, no, no, no, no!

Thorpe Hall Avenue  :-[ :-[

I despair!
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #741 on: September 16, 2010, 06:45:54 pm »
Oh, fecking hell no!    >:( No, no, no, no, no!

Thorpe Hall Avenue  :-[ :-[

I despair!
???
I'll guess that they are making a cycle lane on the footway and leaving the road as a four lane dual carriageway.  ::-)

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #742 on: September 16, 2010, 07:44:10 pm »
Worse than that! The dual carriageways stay. The central reservation is untouched (thank dog for small mercies).

They are going to mark parking bays in the nearside carriage way, then have a separation zone of half a metre, then a cycle lane, then the car lane.

But, on the stretch from the seafront to Woodgrange Drive there is hardly ever any parked cars anyway so the effect will be to have a two lane carriageway with a cycle lane in between the two lanes.   :facepalm:
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #743 on: September 16, 2010, 07:48:23 pm »
They are going to mark parking bays in the nearside carriage way, then have a separation zone of half a meter, then a cycle lane, then the car lane.
It's so the council can have extra parking bays @ £X/hour just in case some fool from out of town wanders into the area and wants to park.
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)

edit: How have they worked out getting cyclists off the seafront and onto THA?

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #744 on: September 16, 2010, 07:57:51 pm »
There has been another alleged 'death by dangerous driving' in Southend today. A pedestrian was run down in Victoria Avenue. This on top of three road closures for traffic collisions yesterday.

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #745 on: September 16, 2010, 08:13:39 pm »
They are going to mark parking bays in the nearside carriage way, then have a separation zone of half a meter, then a cycle lane, then the car lane.
It's so the council can have extra parking bays @ £X/hour just in case some fool from out of town wanders into the area and wants to park.
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)

edit: How have they worked out getting cyclists off the seafront and onto THA?

East of the roundabout cross over the seafront from NCN 16, short section of shared use footpath up THA. Looks like cyclists going up THA will need to cross over a zebra crossing at the end of the shared use section.

Also looks like the path will end just before the RAB at woodgrange drive then start again on the other side. No problem for experienced cyclists but the less experienced may be looking for guidence from a path that just ends when they need it the most.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #746 on: September 16, 2010, 08:14:12 pm »
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)


There is absolutely no need for a cycle lane in Thorpe Hall Avenue.
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #747 on: September 16, 2010, 08:29:16 pm »
They must have a few hundred thou left over from Cycling England.  ::-)
There is absolutely no need for a cycle lane in Thorpe Hall Avenue.
There wasn't a need for the Western Espl. lane either but that didn't stop them from building it.

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #748 on: September 16, 2010, 10:34:24 pm »
Pedantically, one might say that there is no need for cycle lanes anywhere. That's what roads are for.  But Southend does seem to have taken idiocy to an inspired level.  I was there a few weeks ago and went out for a short ride along the seafront with my stepfather, who splits his time between Leigh and a small town in Holland. We used the cycle route from Chalkwell to just before the pier. I came back on the road and he joined me just after the casino.  We both came away concluding that someone has been putting something mind-altering in the councillors' tea.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #749 on: September 17, 2010, 11:22:11 am »
Everybody who has these new plans for the area, please make sure you not only provide suitable feedback to them but also make sure that the council acknowledges these responses.

They claim to be consulting, now lets see them respond accordingly.