Author Topic: One way trip to Mars  (Read 8075 times)

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #1 on: 25 October, 2010, 12:53:01 pm »
Would you sign up?

One-way Martian colonization missions: Proposal would cut costs dramatically, ensure long-term commitment

I'm too tall, astronauts are very short people. It's probably a cunning plan by someone who doesn't like the vertically challenged. I can see the appeal, send Jamie Cullen, keep Sophie Dahl.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #2 on: 25 October, 2010, 12:54:50 pm »
I wouldn't sign up myself, but I would like to nominate some people to send to Mars (or anywhere) with no prospect of return.

For a fairly complete list, please see the Supertwats thread.
Getting there...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #3 on: 25 October, 2010, 01:00:43 pm »
I wouldn't sign up myself, but I would like to nominate some people to send to Mars (or anywhere) with no prospect of return.

For a fairly complete list, please see the Supertwats thread.
... or the steam-catapult thread. We don't need another one  ;D

I went to a talk last week by a lady involved in Mars Express. She discussed various issues about the mission, and about what may or may not be on Mars of interest.

In her introduction she mentioned the 1-way option, but laughed it off as barely worthy of her attention. (I would have asked her about this but the Q&A was long enough as it was). Odd.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #4 on: 25 October, 2010, 01:03:14 pm »
Interesting.  In addition to being too old (I assume) I would fail for not having the right skills.  Oh well, guess I'll stick with the day job.
 
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #5 on: 25 October, 2010, 01:09:06 pm »
Too big, too old, too unfit, too scared.
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #6 on: 25 October, 2010, 01:19:13 pm »
Not me; but no 'colonists' are going to Mars for a very long time, given the moon is far closer, and probably also has polar ice.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #7 on: 25 October, 2010, 01:24:29 pm »
I'm reminded of the Kim Stanley Robinson books - the first Mars explorers don't have a way home, and won't for some years.  They get their base-building gear (kit like JCBs, air processors and a pocket reactor) sent on ahead, and after a few years of success, more arrive, eventually producing the means to get back.

The point being not that it's a one-way trip, but that it's a very long tour: decades of service.  That's just a calling, that is, and there's plenty of people who do odd things in odd places because they've got a calling.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Zoidburg

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #8 on: 25 October, 2010, 01:45:34 pm »
Prison colony of the future.

Once all the roger ramjet NASA types have planted a flag and done the sciencey stuff someone will have to dig out all that rock to construct air tight habitats.

It's not a calling - it's a life sentence.

From a technological view point we are indeed on the cusp of being able to start the slow colonisation of our own orbit and then the moon and mars.

From a social and moral view point the human race is nowhere near ready for life further out into our solar system.

As we are now the push outward would lead to soviet style collectivism or far right style enslavement of an under class in order to carry the pioneers aloft to what they consider to be their rightfull place in the stars.

We aren't ready as a species for this, no where near.






Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #9 on: 25 October, 2010, 03:02:21 pm »
Hell yes, though they'd never take me.

They'd never take half the characters in the KSR books either.

noisycrank

  • twitter @noisycrank
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #10 on: 25 October, 2010, 03:31:42 pm »
I thought without big water tanks round the outside or some other sort of heavy shielding that radiation was still a big problem.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/17feb_radiation/

and when you get there

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Radiation_Environment_Experiment]Mars Radiation Environment Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/url]

"Ironically, in the Autumn of 2003 after a series of particularly strong solar flares MARIE started malfunctioning, probably as a result of being exposed to the solar flare's intense blast of particle radiation."
If you don't like my haircut you can suck my socks!

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #11 on: 25 October, 2010, 03:35:23 pm »
Would they let you take a bike on board? Even a Brompton ?
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #12 on: 25 October, 2010, 03:38:13 pm »
I remember a sci fi adventure picture book from when I was at school

Giant ants attacked the men landing on mars it was all very difficult

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #13 on: 25 October, 2010, 03:54:13 pm »
I think we could have the technology to travel to Mars, and set up a base, but you would need a significant investment which most countries (even in groups like ESA) aren't willing to make.

There is a potential issue with radiation during flight, and in essence what you would do is build enclaves in the spacecraft which would use as much mass as possible from the spacecraft itself, and additional localised shielding to protect the astronauts during a (relatively short) solar event.  Having said that, you would still be likely to get a higher dose of radiation than is optimal, but so long as (i) you could live with a slightly higher risk of cancer and (ii) didn't want kids.  The first is likely to not be that much of an issue, since people happily smoke cigarettes and similar all their lives, and that substantially increases the incidence of all sorts of nasty things and (ii) could be (sort of) dealt with by making donations into cryo-storage before you left or just get the breeding over with before the journey!

Of course, you would only be hit by a solar event if you were unlucky, most journeys would quite likely be solar radiation free (aside from the higher background rate, which you would need some shielding against).

On the surface of Mars, there is a belief (yet to be proven), that Mars's crustal magnetic field may cause very localised magnetospheres.  If this is true, they could provide protection from solar events in much the same was as the Earth's magnetosphere does, but you would have to place you base in the right location.  Mars doesn't have a global magnetic field, like the Earth, since it's internal core has cooled too much for a self-sustaining dynamo effect, but it does seem to have frozen in local magnetic fields, left over from when the planet did have a magnetic field geologically much earlier.  These may or may not create protection from the solar wind, but that's one of the sort of things that future missions will seek to determine (and I'm involved with proposals to put magnetometers onto future missions for this sort of purpose).

Failing that, it's also possible that we could manufacture some sort of Marscrete out of Martian sourced materials, and use that to construct underground structures, buried under sufficient loose material that it would provide protection from radiation.  Similar schemes have been proposed for the Moon, where I think we have a better idea of the geological composition, so are in a more suitable position to suggest manufacturing techniques for Mooncrete.  Future missions are likely to determine the Martian geology such that usable recipes for Marscrete may well be developed.

I'd go on a one way trip, assuming that it could be demonstrated that there was support for continuous development, because you would need frequent resupply with additional materials, for quite a while, regardless of how useful the surface of Mars is for the supply of some elements.  It will take time to develop and install the mining and manufacturing equipment that is likely to be needed to create a self sustaining colony, although some of the more bulky stuff (like building material) is likely to be solved more rapidly.

Having said that, they wouldn't want me, because of my medical needs, which itself would require a continuous supply, since drugs which I need for my survival are far too complex to generate in such an environment for a substantial period of time.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

fuzzy

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #14 on: 25 October, 2010, 07:29:36 pm »
I'd go, but then, I'm a Child of the Apollo Generation and being an Astronaut was what I wanted when I was a sprog and this is the sort of thing that Arthur C Clarke wrote about and kept me entralled with.

I would also insist on taking an decent MTB because I would want to ride up Olympus Mons and then undertake a balls out descent 8)

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #15 on: 25 October, 2010, 07:36:07 pm »
Martian gravity == easy hill-climbing + less pressure on contact points.

Assuming the surface isn't too hostile to tyres, this could be a great place to do your PBP qualifiers.
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #16 on: 25 October, 2010, 07:48:54 pm »
The atmosphere has only 1% of the pressure of Earth's atmosphere. Your tyres inflated to 85psi would blow off the rim (now now children).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #17 on: 25 October, 2010, 07:53:19 pm »
Actually given that the atmospheric pressure is so low, and the majority of the energy that cyclists use is to overcome drag, it should be far easier to cycle faster than on the Earth.

The problem would probably be that all existing space suit designs are far too bulky to make cycling in them practical, let alone easy.  It's not the pressure itself (although dealing with that isn't trivial), it's the layers that you would need for heating.  Mars is a cold place, so any suit designed to be used there would need substantial insulation and probably active heating (although maybe not when cycling hell for leather down Olympus Mons. ;D)  Most current suit designs are also probably far to inflexible for cycling in.

Spacesuit design is a horribly complex subject!
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #18 on: 25 October, 2010, 07:55:52 pm »
There was a Horizon program a couple of years back about the problems involved in travelling to Mars, a journey of a year or two. Problems such as 'what would the travellers eat/drink/breathe'' were easy to solve. Bigger engineering problems that they didnt really have solutions to included stopping meteorites turning the spaceship into a colander, and preventing the hard radiation found in inter-planatary space and solar flares frying the crew. But the real bigger was 'how to stop the crew killing each other'.

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #19 on: 25 October, 2010, 07:56:54 pm »
I'd definitely go.   Can't think of a more unique backwoods adventure...

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #20 on: 25 October, 2010, 08:08:21 pm »
... But the real bigger was 'how to stop the crew killing each other'.

There are some currently, and have been previously, research into small environments of people who can't talk to the outside world (or have artificially introduced delays, as would occur with a Mars mission).  You are likely to be right though, how do you produce a crew of people who will survive and not go postal when locked up with the same small bunch of people for several years! 

You also need a combination of skills and backups to those skills, so that you can deal with all eventualities.  It's all well and good to have a MD on board, but if he's the one who gets injured or ill, someone else needs to be able to treat him/her (that another issue of course, sex - good or bad?)

Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Zoidburg

Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #21 on: 25 October, 2010, 08:19:47 pm »
I think trying to build big rockets to reach the moon or mars was always an arse about tit way of doing stuff.

All the money should have gone into putting far more stuff into orbit , then use that as jumping off point.

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #22 on: 25 October, 2010, 11:17:53 pm »
The atmosphere has only 1% of the pressure of Earth's atmosphere. Your tyres inflated to 85psi would blow off the rim (now now children).

1 bar = 14.5psi

So take away the atmosphere and you'll only increase the pressure difference across a 85psi tyre by ~17%

I rather hope that rim designers use a slightly bigger margin for error than that <nervous now...>
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #23 on: 25 October, 2010, 11:22:30 pm »
Yeah.  The real issue is the high CO2 content of the Martian atmosphere causing the tubes to deflate more quickly :)

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: One way trip to Mars
« Reply #24 on: 25 October, 2010, 11:35:28 pm »
Don't SKS do a Mars-rated Rennkompressor with an atmospheric fractionating podule?

Actually, would that even work?  You'd need a tyre such that it could bear your weight: .38 x your Earth weight.  Atmospheric pressure is 6-10 millibars -- say, 1% of Earth.  How much of a tyre's usefulness is tied to the relative values of our gravity and thick air? 

Are bicycle tyres evidence of fine tuning? ???

Time for some of those awesome S-sprung double rim metal jobbies, perhaps.  In titanium, because this is SPACE.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.