Catriona Patel trial.

[clarion]

Those are the cases I mean.

However, we will probably find that the HSE is one of those quangos wasting public money, and in line for budget slashing or abolition.

[Wendy]

And Boris wanted to remove the lorry safety unit's funding with a 100% hit rate on serious safety defects on lorries inspected?  Boris, you are a 'kin oxygen thief.

[clarion]

Never to be forgotten.

[Julian]

Surely there's a case for prosecuting the company.

Julian ?

HSE can prosecute.  The family should sue the last living penny out of them.

I've just checked Companies House and it looks as though they're too pig-thick even to have dissolved and reconstituted to prevent that happening. 

[Regulator]

As many people have said so many times, the HSE should be involved in these cases.

They should be involved in all cases where the driver was working.

The HSE is perfectly entitled to be involved in such cases - no new legislation is required as the current H&S legislation covers such matters.

The HSE chooses not to involve itself in such cases.

 

[clarion]

Ain't gonna happen.

Like a lot of obviously right things, there are too many interests at risk.

[SlowCoach]

I'm horrified to think that a driver with Dennis Putz's history could still  have been employed within the road transport industry. Thames Materials as the vehicle operator has a duty as part of it's Operators Licence (looks like they hold a Standard - National only licence from the blue disk displayed on the vehicle) to manage it's transport fleet in a safe manner.

Not only should the HSE be prosecuting, but the Traffic Commissioner should also be pulling Thames Materials in to a public inquiry to consider revoking their operator's licence. It's not just the driver who has a duty of care here, but also the Operator including it's CPC holder.

For my sins, I used to manage a transport fleet and I still hold my CPC (Certificate of Professional Competence to manage a road haulage operation). The Traffic Commissioner has a lot of clout and doesn't require the same level of proof as a criminal court to act. To quote from their own literature "The standard of proof before a Traffic Commissioner is less than that required by a criminal court. Traffic Commissioners need to be satisfied that the facts have been proved on the ‘balance of probability’, i.e. more likely than not." Was Putz properly licenced all the time they were employing him? What was their attitude to allowing drivers to break the law in terms of mobile phone use and alcohol levels? I would expect the Traffic Commissioners to have moved in to this organisation TODAY to establish what sort of operation Thames Materials are running and whether or not the licence holder is fit and proper. There are 3 criteria which have to be considered: does the licence holder have adequate financial standing,  is the licence holder of good repute, and is the licence holder professionally competent. With their previous history and now the information that they were prepared to allow a driver like Putz out of the depot whilst clearly intoxicated I would seriously question if they are still of "good repute".

Sorry - I'm waffling - this whole incident has upset me.

[hellymedic]

This incident has upset me too, but in a different way. I do not wish to diminish the horror and horrendous facts of this case.

It seems that to secure a conviction for causing death by dangerous driving whole catalogue of misdemeanours is needed, any one of which should suffice.
Alcohol
Mobile phone use
Long time in which to perceive cyclist etc

Without this catalogue, it seems likely a driver will at worst be convicted of careless driving but may well get away with a trivial fine.

[ian_oli]

The hauliers are located in Hanwell. It is reasonably local to me but I dont live in the Ealing Southall constituency. A letter to the local MP along the lines of "Can you help stop this substandard road haulier amongst us causing danger to us constituents" and more generally what is being done to ensure drives like Dennis Putz never set foot inside a cab again would not go amiss.

I'd be willing to help draft one.

[Wowbagger]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

He is as much a permanent threat to human life as Ian Huntley and for that reason I believe he should never be released.

[Steve Kish]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

...and that's the frightening thing!  What's the use of banning someone who has ignored being banned in the past?   

[rr]

Those are the cases I mean.

However, we will probably find that the HSE is one of those quangos wasting public money, and in line for budget slashing or abolition.

38% cut

[alexb]

This was on the London Regional news today and is on their website:

   London Regional News | London Tonight - ITV Local


They show that the CCTV proved she had not pulled up alongside the lorry. Entirely his fault in other words.

[itsbruce]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

...and that's the frightening thing!  What's the use of banning someone who has ignored being banned in the past?   

If companies that employed people like him were properly disciplined, so that they were much more reluctant to do it again, that might wake him up a bit.  Presumably, he doesn't like being unemployed.

[Tourist Tony]

I may have missed it, but has nobody else noticed his surname? Prick by name....

[Cunobelin]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

...and that's the frightening thing!  What's the use of banning someone who has ignored being banned in the past?   

If companies that employed people like him were properly disciplined, so that they were much more reluctant to do it again, that might wake him up a bit.  Presumably, he doesn't like being unemployed.

If we can gain anything from this tragedy then perhaps a tougher approach to the compamies as well would be a suitable gain.

In many other professions there are requirements to check on employees.  I and my colleagues have to undergo regular CRB checks, and it is also the responsibility of the company to ensure the checks are performed. Anything dodgy means no employment

It would not be difficult to put something like this in place for HGVs and penalties for companies that employed drivers so listed, or failed to carry out the checks would also be simple

Could also easily extend to taxi drivers, bus drivers, couriers  and other self styled "professional" drivers as well!

[Fixedwheelnut]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

...and that's the frightening thing!  What's the use of banning someone who has ignored being banned in the past?   

If companies that employed people like him were properly disciplined, so that they were much more reluctant to do it again, that might wake him up a bit.  Presumably, he doesn't like being unemployed.

If we can gain anything from this tragedy then perhaps a tougher approach to the compamies as well would be a suitable gain.

In many other professions there are requirements to check on employees.  I and my colleagues have to undergo regular CRB checks, and it is also the responsibility of the company to ensure the checks are performed. Anything dodgy means no employment

It would not be difficult to put something like this in place for HGVs and penalties for companies that employed drivers so listed, or failed to carry out the checks would also be simple

Could also easily extend to taxi drivers, bus drivers, couriers  and other self styled "professional" drivers as well!

 +1 to all that Cunobelin, it's an easy cop out for the companies especially as they put pressure on their employees to get deliveries done by certain times, hence they take unnecessary risks

 This driver in case had/has a total disrespect for the law and others well being.

[Speshact]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

...and that's the frightening thing!  What's the use of banning someone who has ignored being banned in the past?   

I'd have been happier if the judge had imposed the life time driving ban with the caveat that if Putz drove again he'd be sentenced to life in prison.

[Cunobelin]

I know there is also a big difference here, but I had certain resevations about "Sarah's Law" and sex ofneders.

Half jokingly I have always said that I would be more interested in the more direct threats to my personal safety and that we should know about drivers who have been banned and committed further offences, this should be equally acessible. Again - why not?

[hellymedic]

I think Cunobelin's suggestion is good but might lead to the formation of more QUANGOs

We must not have more QUANGOs

We are the Condemns...

[Adrian]

It's my view that such a totally irresponsible criminal like Putz will never respect the law and can never be trusted to obey the life ban on driving.

...and that's the frightening thing!  What's the use of banning someone who has ignored being banned in the past?   

I'd have been happier if the judge had imposed the life time driving ban with the caveat that if Putz drove again he'd be sentenced to life in prison.

It needs more flexibility in the sentencing. You are sentenced to prison for X years of which you must serve between Y and Z depending on behaviour after which the remainder will be suspended dependant on your accepting and respecting the lifetime ban or back you go. The same as a life sentence.

[Domestique]

I know there is also a big difference here, but I had certain resevations about "Sarah's Law" and sex ofneders.

Half jokingly I have always said that I would be more interested in the more direct threats to my personal safety and that we should know about drivers who have been banned and committed further offences, this should be equally acessible. Again - why not?

I read somewhere an idea where people convicted of motoring offences, points on liceince etc would need to display this on the car/van/truck clearly for other road users to see.
One good thing about staggering rises in car insurance it makes a lot of people think when they get behind the wheel. The truck driver in this case though was a nutter.

[SlowCoach]

If we can gain anything from this tragedy then perhaps a tougher approach to the compamies as well would be a suitable gain.

In many other professions there are requirements to check on employees.
....
Could also easily extend to taxi drivers, bus drivers, couriers  and other self styled "professional" drivers as well!

But there is a requirement, as part of the Operator's Licence, for company to run it's fleet in a safe and legal manner. As the named transport manager on an O Licence, I  used to inspect all my drivers' licences once every 3 months to check that they were correcty licenced to drive the right class of HGV, their licence hadn't been suspended or expired, it wasn't forged, their medical was up to date (where required) and they hadn't collected any undeclared points since the last inspection (which then had to be declared to our insurer).

It wasn't listed anywhere that I had to do it, but it was made clear to me by the Traffic Commissioner's Office that it was my responsibility to ensure that all of our drivers were licenced and our insurance was valid. The Commissioner considered that, by conducting regular checks, I could demonstrate that I was trying to carry out this part of my duties in a responsible manner.

[spindrift]

I've just called Thames Materials, which is based in Trumpers Way, Hanwell.

After being told by the receptionist that

"no-one is here... well they are"


I was eventually put through to a manager. He refused to give his name and said:


"I have no comment to make at the moment."



Ross Lydall | Blogs | Evening Standard

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

What would happen if we all wrote to the HSE and asked them to take action?