Form two lanes when cycle lane is not in use

[gordon taylor]

Absolutely:



On most cross country routes, I'd expect to ride for 40 or 50 km without putting a foot down.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Gordy, a junction like that depends on two things:

a) a willingness by the motorist to stop at the cycle lane of course

b) sight lines

By (b) I mean that if I was a motorist approaching the main road I would be looking left and right on the main road - if you don't have a good sight line you would pull out over the cycle lane.
Which means that the road and junctions must be designed with the cycle lane integral to it - not just some paint slapped down, or a footway redesignated.

[Regulator]

Gordy, a junction like that depends on two things:

a) a willingness by the motorist to stop at the cycle lane of course

b) sight lines

By (b) I mean that if I was a motorist approaching the main road I would be looking left and right on the main road - if you don't have a good sight line you would pull out over the cycle lane.
Which means that the road and junctions must be designed with the cycle lane integral to it - not just some paint slapped down, or a footway redesignated.

It helps that the Dutch have the presumption of liability... that tends to focus the minds of drivers.  

Plus the rules are very clear - if the "dragon's teeth" (the Give Way markings) are towards you, you have to give way to anything crossing.

[iakobski]

I've seen those in France too - and they are respected 100%, if there's anything in the cycle lane the drivers just wait.

Exactly the opposite to the UK where any on-road cycle lane is treated as an advanced give way line for the traffic from the side road.

[teethgrinder]

We wouldn't need painted cycle lanes in the gutter of roads in the first place if people drove their cars the way they are supposed to.
Motorists have no choice but to drive in the (very wide) non mandatory cycle lanes outside Ambleside Youth Hostel. The bit in the middle of the road which isn't a cyclepath is too narrow for two cars to pass. I think they should do that on all roads, it seems to work in getting motorists to overtake how they should do in the first place.

Standard road markings in the countryside in the Netherlands look like this:



The effect is dramatic.

Just like outside Ambleside Youth Hostel. It seemed to work well there too. Seems daft really, that if you put some paint on the road, people do what they should be doing without the paint.

[teethgrinder]

Not reading the HC is a poor excuse for driving in a MCL;
it's a solid white line, a pretty standard convention for showing where you shouldn't be driving!

Except that you can drive in a MCL outside its hours of operation...

Just as you can in the bus lane. People seldom do though. I'm sure that they think that bus lanes are always in operation. OK, I know they are in some places.

[Regulator]

We wouldn't need painted cycle lanes in the gutter of roads in the first place if people drove their cars the way they are supposed to.
Motorists have no choice but to drive in the (very wide) non mandatory cycle lanes outside Ambleside Youth Hostel. The bit in the middle of the road which isn't a cyclepath is too narrow for two cars to pass. I think they should do that on all roads, it seems to work in getting motorists to overtake how they should do in the first place.

Standard road markings in the countryside in the Netherlands look like this:



The effect is dramatic.

Just like outside Ambleside Youth Hostel. It seemed to work well there too. Seems daft really, that if you put some paint on the road, people do what they should be doing without the paint.

'Naked roads' work just as well.  It unsettles drivers and forces them to slow down and take more care.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Just as you can in the bus lane. People seldom do though. I'm sure that they think that bus lanes are always in operation. OK, I know they are in some places.

Yes, but if you drive in a bus lane and get the hours wrong the chances are you'll get a ticket in the post. Bus lanes have cameras all over the place. There is one near me with a height-sensing camera - bus drives past OK, cars are snapped. I've yet to see a car in that bus lane (24 hour).
Ticket for using a cycle lane or an ASL? Pull the other one.

[Honest John]

Not reading the HC is a poor excuse for driving in a MCL;
it's a solid white line, a pretty standard convention for showing where you shouldn't be driving!

Except that you can drive in a MCL outside its hours of operation...

Just as you can in the bus lane. People seldom do though. I'm sure that they think that bus lanes are always in operation. OK, I know they are in some places.

In my experience about 95% of drivers never drive in a bus lane, while the other 5% always drive in a bus lane.

[Kim]

Except that you can drive in a MCL outside its hours of operation...

Just as you can in the bus lane. People seldom do though. I'm sure that they think that bus lanes are always in operation. OK, I know they are in some places.

I tend not to drive in bus lanes out of habit.  If it's unfamiliar, or I'm not 100% sure what time it is, I'll err on the side of caution and avoid it.  Of course, outside the hours of operation the traffic's usually light enough that having a second lane to drive in doesn't really gain you anything, so I'll do what the other traffic's doing and stay out of the bus lane unless I want to turn left.

I'm sure that's what most drivers are thinking.

[Cudzoziemiec]

We wouldn't need painted cycle lanes in the gutter of roads in the first place if people drove their cars the way they are supposed to.
Motorists have no choice but to drive in the (very wide) non mandatory cycle lanes outside Ambleside Youth Hostel. The bit in the middle of the road which isn't a cyclepath is too narrow for two cars to pass. I think they should do that on all roads, it seems to work in getting motorists to overtake how they should do in the first place.

Standard road markings in the countryside in the Netherlands look like this:



The effect is dramatic.

Just like outside Ambleside Youth Hostel. It seemed to work well there too. Seems daft really, that if you put some paint on the road, people do what they should be doing without the paint.

'Naked roads' work just as well.  It unsettles drivers and forces them to slow down and take more care.

I think they only work because people aren't used to them yet. In countries I've cycled in where roads with no paint are pretty much the norm, there's no noticeable difference in behaviour between roads with and without lines.

[strength5]

The 20 meter cycle lane in question and the barrage of confusing signs! I'd like to see the lane done properly and converting half the pavement to the cycle lane under the bridge (costs MCC money so they prefer the dangerous option!)


Stength5: Manchester council A57 Hyde Road Cycle lane / Bike lane confusing signs!

+

Stength5: Manchester council A57 Hyde Road Cycle lane congestion / gridlock / bottleneck

[clarion]

Hello - new member?  Welcome.

Thanks for the links

[strength5]

Hi didn't introduce myself

Live in manc, ride a Santa Cruz Heckler @ the weekends, and alternate driving and commuting to work on my old 1998 Schwinn Moab with slicks and singlespeed conversion  


(face book page discussing this too Nicht unterstüzter Browser | Facebook )

[YahudaMoon]

Hello - new member?  Welcome.

Thanks for the links

+ 1

Hi stengh5. I have not noticed the other 'form two lanes when cycle lane not in use' on the other side of the road. As I live 100 yards away from these signs I don't really take any notice looking at them except the red lights as I cycle down there every day nearly. What a mess ! I haven't noticed the other signs on your blog.

I will take more pics and put them on here. Somethings definitely need change

Thanks

John

[strength5]

hi Yahuda,

There's the sign in your pic, and another smaller one in the heading to denton island direction

For incoming manc traffic there is the smaller sign as in my blog, and a bigger one i've yet to get a pic of before the cycle lane starts. Along with the barrage of confusing lane change signs.

I drove to work this morning and 2 bikes were using the lane heading into manchester. Cars were joining the lane behind the first cyclist (presuming that part of the lane not in use i guess so trying to obey the sign) whilst the cyclist behind had to deal with these cars pulling into the lane. Other cars were then pulling back in trying to form one lane. Absolute bedlam!

[YahudaMoon]

This popped up last week after the A57 Hyde Rd Manchester decided to add a cycle lanes. Great !

But whats going on here with this sign ?. Its clearly instructing motorist to form two lanes. Also as you can see from the picture the road goes to the right so there could be cyclist there ? Also when is the cycle lane not in use ?
Or to put it another way when is the road not in use ? This sign has really annoyed me. Do I have a case to have it removed ?

Update.*****************************************************************



These signs 'form two lanes when cycle lane is not in use' May be coming down.

On my way home this evening I noticed all of them have been coverd up with black PVC and tape

I don't no anything else, If the cycle lanes are the next to go I don't know ?

[YahudaMoon]

Going off topic. Anyone remember the car, a Mini Cooper I think  in the 1970's that was sticking out of someones bedroom window right near where the above ^^^^^^ sign is, what was all that about  ?

Maybe I dreamed it

[YahudaMoon]

Some updates


Jackie Pearcey blog
Liberal Democrat Councillor for Gorton North

Interesting

http://jackiepearcey.mycouncillor.org.uk/2011/04/06/hyde-road-cycle-u-turn/

[YahudaMoon]

Looks like Jackie sides on the motorist and don't care much for us cyclist

[Regulator]

And, of course, we wouldn't think of commenting.... 

[Jedrik]

On most cross country routes, I'd expect to ride for 40 or 50 km without putting a foot down.

You might be wrong. Especially since the cyclists on cycle paths in the netherlands have no right of way at roundabouts and most crossings with other traffic outside city limits. And you might have overlooked the fact, that cycle paths on the continent might be on one side of the road only with that side changing every now and then with narrow street crossings at right angles where cyclists have to let traffic pass first. Another quirk making them awkward is occassional raised borders on both sides of narrow paths: No way you can pass someone going slower, you are stuck behind a five year old on his baby trike if fate wills it so until you find a rare spot to escape the funnel.

Audax in the netherlands is often  a bit like riding an agility parcours (but so is London, iirc)

When I need to ride in cycle path riddled areas (mind you, over here "mandatory" means that cyclists have to use them) I expect my rolling average to go down by about 10%, so I usually try to avoid them.

That said: If a family wants a nice pootle or the paths give you the opportunity to pass traffic congestions, they are pretty nice. If you can go on long and lonely stretches along canals, rivers and dykes, they are really lovely.