Author Topic: The end of the road for Landis.  (Read 11042 times)

Re: The end of the road for Landis.
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2008, 02:00:19 pm »
But the rules of the game are what is being discussed.  And in every game I've ever played, "the referee's decision is final" with a caveat or two about the video ref or somesuch. 

If you're sent off in a game of football for a tackle that never was because the other guy dived, that's tough. It doesn't generally result in a long term ban from the sport and loss of your livelihood.
The old Legion hand told the recruit, "When things are bad, bleu, try not to make them worse, because it is very likely that they are bad enough already." -- Robert Ruark


  • Biting the cherry of existential delight
    • The Art of Pleisure
Re: The end of the road for Landis.
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2008, 05:58:30 pm »

I know this analogy is contrived and doesn't quite fit the Mass Spec and carbon isotope parts, but lets see how close we can get it.

I think your analogy is pretty close to the way I feel about the affair. 

+1.  It's a fit-up >:(

Clearly I am in the minority, but it's not a fit up in my opinion. And I think there has been a fair bit of bending of the truth by those attacking the lab. It was his sample and it contained levels of synthetic testosterone. This is what the bottom line is, and is why despite the mistakes by the lab the CAS didn't let his appeal be successful. Why are there so many people on a cycling forum who think they are better qualified to judge than the people of the CAS who looked at ALL the evidence, and not selective parts with which those here are basing their arguments.


  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: The end of the road for Landis.
« Reply #77 on: July 04, 2008, 01:12:21 pm »
SS - the 'selective' parts are hugely important in this case. If the analytical method is dodgy and the chain of custody compromised then Landis has a very good case to say that the offence has not been proven.

Gut feelings and political necessity do not prove that he took performance enhancing drugs. Relying on them and ignoring the scientific shortcomings only brings the disciplinary process into disrepute.

If Landis takes this to court and wins then it may at least give the people on the scientific side of the process a well deserved wake up call.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: The end of the road for Landis.
« Reply #78 on: July 04, 2008, 01:59:16 pm »
The entirety of the USADA appeal was public. This 'sdditional evidence' somehow wasn't presented then. It is also most surprising that the lab would release flawed analyses in discovery and not release the ones that were performed properly (that noone except the arbitration panel has seen)

The CAS judgement was a legal one. Did the laboratory violate the ILS for doping control? If so, did this materially affect the outcome?
It ignores the technical nature of the argument. Because the ILS did not explicitly rule out subjective processes like visual peak matching and manual integration (To which the response locally amongst world reknowned MS experts was incredulity that such methods would be acceptable) the CAS ruled that LNDD did not breach ILS and the results should stand.

Legally they may be correct. Scientifically they are dead wrong.


"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: The end of the road for Landis.
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2008, 02:05:11 am »
I'll try and persuade JimBob to have a look at this thread since she's got considerable experience as an analytical chemist (lab manager at two major national laboratories now).