Author Topic: Cleanest Tour in years?  (Read 3679 times)

gonzo

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2011, 06:03:18 pm »
As a question for you all; would you all rather see an exciting tour (like the last one) with dirty riders or a clean one with one rider miles better than the others?

A clean tour with one rider miles better than the others means what, exactly?  That every rider is clean except for one doper who has provided the UCI with a brown paper bag or that every rider is actually clean and one bloke is actually miles better than everybody else or that most/all of the field is only low-level doping?

No, I mean that all the riders are clean, and this is accepted by everyone, but it's utterly boring because one chap is miles better than everyone else.

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
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Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2011, 06:20:44 pm »
If every rider was clean, it must have been the first time ever. They have used various substances
through the years, from alcohol in the early 1900's to EPO and synthetic steroids in 2000's.


LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2011, 06:26:20 pm »
Having one rider miles better than the rest isn't always boring. Read about Merckx in 1969, taking off on a solo breakaway while in the yellow jersey and putting 5 minutes (EDIT: 8+ minutes) into the field on a mountain stage. He won the yellow, green and polkadot jerseys and his team won the team prize. It was reckoned to be one of the best Tours ever and the crowds appreciated the best rider showing his class by riding aggressively.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2011, 10:50:32 pm »
But by the following year he was whistled at, and 5 years later punched, by the less than appreciative French fans.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2011, 11:12:08 pm »
So a single drunk Frenchman's punch to his favourite's main competitor means that all the spectators were bored with Merckx's dominance? A C+ argument at best (did you see what I did there?). Come on, you can do better than that!
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

vorsprung

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Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2011, 11:47:01 am »
I think this year was the best since then.

I've only been watching the Tour properly since the Lance years.  And this years Tour was the best I've seen.
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Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2011, 08:22:51 pm »
I don't have an opinion on him either way, really. I'm just highlighting how easy it is to let yourself believe that what you want to be the case is the case.

(but first and foremost I'm  just seeing how receptive Grub is to the pointy stick  ;). )

I knew what you were trying to do so I was not going to take the bait.  However, I don't expect you to understand my belief.  It can only be understood by an Aussie.  If EVANS is found to have cheated, he will be crucified by his nation.  I mean totally annihilated.  We do not tolerate cheats.  The Aussie way is hard work and honest graft - no short cuts.  So I have faith in him but I totally agree about some of his team mates especially that Italian ex world champ.

LEE

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2011, 08:41:07 pm »
Innocent until proven guilty is my stance.

If they are proven guilty then erase them from the record books.

So well done Evans (despite being rather an odd chap)

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2011, 08:47:40 pm »
Give the guy the credit he played a blinder.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2011, 08:50:17 pm »
Grub, there definitely are Aussie pro riders currently using dope.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2011, 09:35:32 pm »
Evans isn't that much older than some of the other post war riders who finished near the top. Merckx was 32 when he finished 6th in his last TdF and was talking about racing it again the next year (but he didn't) and Hinault was 32 when he came second in his last TdF.

A more apt comparison for Evans would be Gino Bartali.

Evans is only about five months older than Gino Bartali was when he won his second TdF. Bartali had a six-year break from racing due to WW2, Evans rode in the Giro d'Italia in 2002 but didn't ride in any Grand Tours in 2003-2004 (due to injuries?), and only started riding in the TdF in 2005. Given how much each Grand Tour takes out of you, if you are reasonably selective about how many races you ride, you can have an extended career compared with riders from a generation or two back.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2011, 10:02:09 pm »
Grub, there definitely are Aussie pro riders currently using dope.

Would you care to name names?  And why you are so sure would be helpful.

"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2011, 10:05:23 pm »
No names.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2011, 10:06:57 pm »
Well, how about telling us why you can be so sure?

"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2011, 10:10:34 pm »
No. Feel free to believe whatever you wish but to think that any nationality is much less likely to dope is very naive.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
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Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2011, 10:13:36 pm »
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. You have proved your assertion beyond all doubt.

Haven't you?
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2011, 10:16:41 pm »
Correct, I have accused nobody in particular and provided no proof.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...


Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2011, 10:25:08 pm »
We do not tolerate cheats.

Bullshit!

I saw plenty of Aussie sportsmen cheating when I lived there and all the Aussies sucked their dicks like they always do!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2011, 10:27:34 pm »
bobb, speak for yourself. Not all of us are that flexible...
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2011, 10:29:23 pm »
I was asking for some substantion of the claim that "there definitely are Aussie pro riders currently using dope" by LW&B, what you've provided goes some way to providing that substantiation and may persuade you, but imo this is not compelling evidence that current pro ridersare doping.

"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2011, 10:47:38 pm »
I don't expect you to understand my belief.  It can only be understood by an Aussie.  If EVANS is found to have cheated, he will be crucified by his nation.  I mean totally annihilated.  We do not tolerate cheats.  The Aussie way is hard work and honest graft -

That is just chauvinistic bollocks.  Here is the proof.



I wouldn't call it chauvinistic bollocks.  More like dreaming and avoiding reality.

But I would say that you took my bait  ;D

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2011, 11:09:58 pm »
I was asking for some substantion of the claim that "there definitely are Aussie pro riders currently using dope" by LW&B, what you've provided goes some way to providing that substantiation and may persuade you, but imo this is not compelling evidence that current pro ridersare doping.

I have provided no evidence and you can believe whatever you like, as I've previously stated. I'm happy with my position.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2011, 09:30:10 pm »
In which case do us the courtesy of distinguishing opinion from fact - instead of posting "Grub, there definitely are Aussie pro riders currently using dope." you should post "Grub, IMO there are Aussie pro riders currently using dope."
"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

gonzo

Re: Cleanest Tour in years?
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2011, 09:43:05 pm »
I'm sure people said similar things about Landis?