Author Topic: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!  (Read 4677 times)

They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« on: 15 August, 2011, 08:57:01 am »
This is the neatest implementation I've seen so far, but they're never successful.  Why do people keep trying?

Engadget link here.

Jaded

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #1 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:18:08 am »
Starts off with disgusting scaremongering.
It is simpler than it looks.

iakobski

Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #2 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:23:36 am »
Why do people keep trying?

Because a large number of drivers will ignore a cyclist signalling.*

To the novice cyclist or the casual observer, it is a reasonable assumption that they do this because they haven't seen the signal.** Anyone with a bit more experience knows the truth is the cyclist is perfectly visible and the driver is deliberately ignoring/bullying them.


* Ironic that as soon as one of those drivers does something stupid the first thing they say is "but you weren't signalling!"
** Similar justification for wearing hi-viz in the middle of the day.

Biggsy

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #3 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:30:05 am »
Why do people keep trying?

Because they feel like inventing something, anything, and indicators is the first cycling-related thing that pops into their head.

The trouble is (for them), the inventors don't realise that most cyclists like to have as little junk and expense as possible.
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Wascally Weasel

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #4 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:34:43 am »
Why do people keep trying?

Because they feel like inventing something, anything, and indicators is the first cycling-related thing that pops into their head.

The trouble is (for them), the inventors don't realise that most cyclists like to have as little junk and expense as possible.

Maybe – but for every lean and hungry audaxer there’s a gadget hungry fellow who’ll purchase gizmo after gizmo.

Charlotte

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #5 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:52:45 am »
FFS, every sodding year someone tries to market something like this  ::-)

I remember some muppet on a stall at one of the Earls Court shows accosting me and trying to convince me that I needed something called Bicygnals.

I told him that I thought his product was pointless shite of the worst kind.  When he challenged me to justify that, I told him that that anyone who'd already bought a good set of lights and still had fifty quid that they wanted to spend on bicycle road safety ought to spend it on a couple of hours of adult cycle training instead.

He didn't like that very much  ;D
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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #6 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:58:28 am »
The only thing like this that I've thought even vaguely worthwhile was a set of leds that fastened on to your glove and stayed on all the time. In normal riding, it showed up to the side and was obviously very visible when indicating.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #7 on: 15 August, 2011, 10:40:24 am »
Not only does the marketing start with ridiculously exaggerated scaremongering, it goes on to claim "the device will flash a giant yellow chevron." How can it be giant when it's fixed to the back of your hand?  ::-) And as it's fixed to your hand, it's not going to do anything your hand and arm can't already do more emphatically - point with a finger (I'm talking about direction, but other ways of pointing are available) or with your whole hand, show the palm of your hand as a stop signal, indicate one particular road at a complicated junction, hold your hand out to the front as an emphatic signal to someone who you feel may be about to turn across your path, indicate a pot hole/broken glass/etc to following riders, and just make yourself look bigger! Not to mention that having something attached to the back of your hand sounds like it would be pretty uncomfortable after a while.

If you're really worried about signals not being seen, invest your $50 in a couple of pairs of hi-viz mitts.
Or better still, cycle training, as Charlotte says.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Biggsy

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #8 on: 15 August, 2011, 10:56:20 am »
Maybe – but for every lean and hungry audaxer there’s a gadget hungry fellow who’ll purchase gizmo after gizmo.

It seems there aren't enough cycling gadget lovers for any indicator product to thrive.  It needs to be more than a fun novelty to be successful in the long run.

Why won't I buy these gloves?  Because I like the mitts I have already (well padded palms & good sweat wipes), and because I find sticking an arm out gets as much attention as I need anyway.  I would enjoy something that saved me sticking my arm out, but I don't want the amount of extra junk (including stalks) that would be needed to make that any good.

The bulk of ordinary people on bikes can't, or don't like to, spend much money on cycling (just look at their bikes), and the bulk of keen enthusiasts have a generally minimalistic policy, so that leaves....

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robgul

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #9 on: 15 August, 2011, 12:15:09 pm »
One of our club riders yesterday sported an excellent "pair of indicators" - the machine in question was a recumbent tandem* - the stoker had pair of fluorescent pink gloves! - the hand signals could be seen from miles away, not sure if they glowed in the dark ... but, to be serious, they really did do the job.

Rob

* this was the machine  http://www.ovotandem.co.uk/  - ridden by the designer/builder Richard Cresswell and his wife.  [The picture on the website is when they rode MacRide last year]

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #10 on: 15 August, 2011, 12:20:27 pm »
A lot of cycling gloves have retroflective materials (often either the manufacturer's logo or some piping).  I'm not convinced adding LEDs is actually going to make them much more visible under most conditions where it's an issue.
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Kim

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #11 on: 15 August, 2011, 01:42:37 pm »
Sticking lights on gloves isn't a *bad* idea.  It's the next logical step from retroreflectives, which demonstrably work well to make hand signals visible at night (the only time it's really an issue, I reckon, and more so for people with dark skin/clothing).  The trick is going to be making it durable enough that it'll survive any reasonable glove-cleaning regime.  I find even retroreflectives have a hard time of that.  If they can manage that and keep the faff/cost down, then they could have a marketable product.  As long as it didn't tie you into a pair of tesco value mitts.

Indicators on the bike, while sometimes a good idea (velomobiles, cargo bikes, riders with hand disabilities, that sort of thing), are always going to be niche.  And most of those niches are ones where hacking together something with motorbike parts and 555 timer chips is a perfectly reasonable approach - a one-size-fits-none commercial product isn't actually going to be that useful.


Stop lights are a different badger.  I molished one on a bored Sunday afternoon to test some microcontroller development kit, and it's still on the bike and functional.  It's entirely possible to make one that's fit-and-forget and actually works (especially if there's a dynamo hub to act as a combined power source and deceleration sensor).  Indeed, B&M have a commercial product integrated into some of their rear lights. 

Whether it's actually useful, I'm not sure.  I've had positive comments on group rides.  I suspect it would be more useful on a velomobile, cargo bike or recumbent - especially with above-seat steering - where you don't get much in the way of body language when viewed from behind to suggest that the rider's about to slow down.  Of course, recumbents have WTF-factor to protect them from motor traffic anyway, so that'd mostly be useful for group rides with people who aren't used to 'bents stopping suddenly.  Again, rather niche.


At the end of the day, it's a classic technology student project: a problem for which a solution is simple, elegant and wrong.

Biggsy

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #12 on: 15 August, 2011, 03:14:38 pm »
The last similar product I remember was Safe Turn, launched in 2008.  These were automatically operating indicator lights on wrist bands.  They were so successful that their website has been taken over by "rape" pornographers ::-)



The concept of the YouTurn mitts looks to be an improvement, but it's going to be difficult to make them cheap enough for the mass market if they're bright enough - especially considering that they will need to be replaced when the mitts wear out.  The electronics and battery could be washing-machine-proofed, but this will add considerably to the cost.  I wouldn't invest money in it.  I'm out.
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Regulator

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #13 on: 15 August, 2011, 03:18:55 pm »
Let me guess... some engineering or design student's dissertation project?
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clarion

  • Tyke
Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #14 on: 15 August, 2011, 04:59:27 pm »
Almost certainly.  Not only have indicators been done unsuccessfully on zillions of occasions, but there have been at least three glove based accelerometer chevrons that I know of.  All failed.
Getting there...

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #15 on: 15 August, 2011, 05:04:22 pm »
Bike indicators are one of those inventions that sound like a sensible idea until you stop and think about it and realise that actually they're a half-baked solution to a non-existent problem. A bit like h… [Stop right there! - the moderators]

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #16 on: 15 August, 2011, 05:54:05 pm »
What's wrong with arms, then?

Once again, someone tries to prefect an already perfect machine by making it worse and more complicated to use
The journey is always more important than the destination

Biggsy

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #17 on: 15 August, 2011, 05:58:42 pm »
What's wrong with arms, then?

They don't light up - is what the inventor thinks, forgetting about street lights or car headlights.



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BrianI

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #18 on: 15 August, 2011, 06:26:52 pm »
I took a look at the inventors video.

So the indicator doofer is only on one hand? ???

Surely it'd be better to have accelerometer triggered flashers on both hands. extend you right arm / hand and the flasher on your right glove starts flashing, extend your left arm / hand and the one  on the left glove starts flashing.  ???

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #19 on: 15 August, 2011, 06:43:42 pm »
That's been the principle of previous incarnations.

Personally, I think retroreflectives on the back of mitts is the answer.
Getting there...

Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #20 on: 15 August, 2011, 06:49:37 pm »
If he hasn't got a name already, he could call it FUGLY.

Biggsy

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #21 on: 15 August, 2011, 07:17:42 pm »
I took a look at the inventors video.

So the indicator doofer is only on one hand? ???

Oh dear.  This particular product isn't even worth discussing any more then.
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Jaded

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Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #22 on: 15 August, 2011, 07:54:20 pm »
I have a brilliant invention! I have made some visual receptors and a processing device to enable drivers to deal with cyclists.

Do you think I will be able to get any funding for my invention? I'm calling it "Tooiessennabrane".
It is simpler than it looks.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #23 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:05:36 pm »
Oh dear.  This particular product isn't even worth discussing any more then.

I did my best to invoke the cycling equivalent of Godwin but everyone ignored me. Typical.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: They've reinvented the bicycle indicator again!
« Reply #24 on: 15 August, 2011, 09:06:28 pm »
The last similar product I remember was Safe Turn, launched in 2008.
Is the cyclist in the picture you included turning left from the middle of the road, across a driver's path? And if so, will a luminous watch be enough to save him?