Author Topic: Cross Training: Running  (Read 159959 times)

annie

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2009, 11:32:00 am »
Great news Greenbank and David, well done. :thumbsup:

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2009, 11:14:42 pm »
*thread resuscitation*

I've noticed that I seem to be able to run better the day after a long / hard bike ride.  As a general rule, it's usually the cardiovascular system that wimps out on me first (I run out of puff and my heartrate goes mental).

The day after a long ride, my cardiovascular system seems a lot more calm.  Okay, my legs are screaming for mercy, but I can cope with that.  This evening I managed to actually *hold a conversation* while jogging, which I've never managed before. 

Is there a reason for this or is it totally psychosomatic? 

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2009, 11:20:36 pm »
Is it that that you just go into aerobic mode a lot earlier ?

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2009, 11:25:29 pm »
I can't think of a reason; but it good that you can jog and chat. That is how it should be.

One a bike my legs will give first (I TT on fixed), whilst running hard, racing or training, it'll be my CV that will fail, every time but a day after a TT race after which my legs can feel rather numb. I am feeling rather poorly after such a hard ride (for me), but I can't compare it to how I have felt in the past running hard (burning lungs, feeling sick).

My problem right now is more one of weight when I run though. I can run okay with my cycling base, but if I could loose the extra flab it'd feel much better and I could probably run better.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2009, 06:09:38 am »
Each time I see this post I feel the shame and guilt of failure.  I have a really nice pair of trainers in my wardrobe but just don't have the time to get out there.
Perhaps with the nicer weather I can go out in the evening, plus the lighter nights may help.  ::-)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2009, 07:02:58 am »
*thread resuscitation*

The day after a long ride, my cardiovascular system seems a lot more calm.  Okay, my legs are screaming for mercy, but I can cope with that.  This evening I managed to actually *hold a conversation* while running, which I've never managed before. 

Is there a reason for this or is it totally psychosomatic? 

I have no idea why it happens, but I get that too - for a few days after a big ride, I'm incapable of getting my HR up to normal when I'm back on the bike.  My guess would be the body is refusing to work as hard cos it's knackered and in recovery mode. Either that, or it's instant training benefits that wear off after a couple of days (which would be depressingly quick!)   


Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2009, 07:57:26 am »
for a few days after a big ride, I'm incapable of getting my HR up to normal when I'm back on the bike. 

This applies to me in the later stages of a ride, even a 200 to some extent.

But when resting afterwards (eg during a typically poor night's rather restless sleep), HR remains high (eg 65 rather than 55). As you say Mike, knackered and attempting recovery?

(Suspect my mistake is to be 65 (+2) rather than 55.)


Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2009, 08:35:39 am »
Each time I see this post I feel the shame and guilt of failure.  I have a really nice pair of trainers in my wardrobe but just don't have the time to get out there.
Perhaps with the nicer weather I can go out in the evening, plus the lighter nights may help.  ::-)

Grub, I often run with a Petzl in winter when it is dark... It is great!  ;)
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2009, 09:07:07 am »
Long summer evenings and crisp summer mornings are better.   :thumbsup:

(I wonder if this is why Kenya produces more world-class runners than Newfoundland?)
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2009, 09:24:29 am »
I called up the consultant who saw me last year regarding my knee.

Me: You know you said I shouldn't take up running?
Him: Yes, cycling is great - running is tough on knees and you have a weak one.
Me: I want to try running - but not tarmac. Our local farmer keeps a grass margin round his fields with permissive access. It's quite soft really.
Him: Hmm... not road running?
Me: Nope
Him: Weell... give it a try, but any pain - stop IMMEDIATELY. And get some proper shoes.
Me: Cool  :thumbsup:

So, I went out this morning. Now - I have never ever been able to run. At school I would bunk off running so I could smoke with my mates in the park  ::-). OK - so I didn't help things - I'm not proud of the yoof I was...

Anyhoo - I can't run because as soon as I make the transition from walking (say 4mph) to jogging (say 5mph), it becomes unsustainable - my heart rate climbs gradually and my breathing gets heavier and heavier until I have to slow to a walk again. It's not like this when I cycle, I can do that all day all night and all the next day.

Do I just need to practice?

FWIW I hardly ever walk or run. I work at home, and if I'm going somewhere I cycle or drive. That's probably the answer there...

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2009, 09:59:44 am »
practice.  I started with 1 minute run / 1 minute walk and worked up from there. 

annie

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2009, 10:02:44 am »
I called up the consultant who saw me last year regarding my knee.

Me: You know you said I shouldn't take up running?
Him: Yes, cycling is great - running is tough on knees and you have a weak one.
Me: I want to try running - but not tarmac. Our local farmer keeps a grass margin round his fields with permissive access. It's quite soft really.
Him: Hmm... not road running?
Me: Nope
Him: Weell... give it a try, but any pain - stop IMMEDIATELY. And get some proper shoes.
Me: Cool  :thumbsup:

So, I went out this morning. Now - I have never ever been able to run. At school I would bunk off running so I could smoke with my mates in the park  ::-). OK - so I didn't help things - I'm not proud of the yoof I was...

Anyhoo - I can't run because as soon as I make the transition from walking (say 4mph) to jogging (say 5mph), it becomes unsustainable - my heart rate climbs gradually and my breathing gets heavier and heavier until I have to slow to a walk again. It's not like this when I cycle, I can do that all day all night and all the next day.

Do I just need to practice?

FWIW I hardly ever walk or run. I work at home, and if I'm going somewhere I cycle or drive. That's probably the answer there...

Hmmmm ::-)

Sometimes even running off road can cause problems, especially with uneven cambers.

I can run and then run some more, no problems with lungs etc until I sprint for the finish line and then almost vomit.

I am doing lots of thinking about my future and cycling and I think that running may feature more than it used to do.  I hope to carry on cycling but am realistic that I may never be able to overcome certain issues.

I agree with Andy.  Early morning and evening runs are the best time.  I use a headtorch and my Exposure joystick, it is invigorating and I really do feel I have pushed myself.

Chris, I really think you need to be a little bit kinder to yourself.  Lots of run/walk.  Even just running for 30 seconds and walking for a minute or until you are able to hold a conversation, probably with yourself until you get the help of a running partner.   Little and often is most certainly the answer. 

If I do a session on the treadmill (which isn't very often anymore) I tend to walk at around 6.6kph and then jog at around 10.5 - 11kph, any faster I consider to be a run.  When I started out though I was probably running at around 9kph.

Listen to your body, don't do anything silly and with time you will reap the rewards.

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2009, 10:37:17 am »
Anyhoo - I can't run because as soon as I make the transition from walking (say 4mph) to jogging (say 5mph), it becomes unsustainable - my heart rate climbs gradually and my breathing gets heavier and heavier until I have to slow to a walk again. It's not like this when I cycle, I can do that all day all night and all the next day.

Do I just need to practice?

Same here.  I got a HRM for Christmas and by the time I've managed a mile at a trundling 5mph, I'm up at 85-90% HR and breathing, as they say, like a peedo in a playground.  It is frustrating that I can cycle for 40 hours straight(ish) but when it comes to running, I'd struggle to keep up with the egg-and-spoon race.

It does just seem to be practice and more practice and breathing reaaaaalllly slowly through my nose.  It's not like riding a bike where if you're off the bike for a month you can hop back on and only struggle slightly, either - between October and Christmas I managed to work up to 5km, then I was poorly-sick over Christmas and didn't go out for ages, and I was right back at square one.  Well, maybe square one-and-a-half.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2009, 04:08:11 pm »
With running, stop one week and you're going backward, unlike cycling indeed. if you only do it very occasionally are are big-boned chances are you will hurt yourself, esp. if you try hard, which begs the question: Why do it? If you really want to, you must take it easy, and "shuffle" at the beginning at least.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2009, 04:19:06 pm »
With running, stop one week and you're going backward, unlike cycling indeed. if you only do it very occasionally are are big-boned chances are you will hurt yourself, esp. if you try hard, which begs the question: Why do it? If you really want to, you must take it easy, and "shuffle" at the beginning at least.

Good points. I'm looking for a convenient cross-training activity that I enjoy, so I'm trying several things including rowing, running and swimming. Running is the one I'm finding the hardest because, as you say, I'm a larger frame so less suited to it.

Time will tell which works best. Problem with swimming is, the nearest pool is 20 miles away and I don't always have time, whereas I can nip out for a quick 20 minute run easily enough.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2009, 04:22:18 pm »
Rowing is probably safer for your knees.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2009, 05:08:26 pm »
Chris,

I hope you didn't mind what I wrote. I have met you so I can anticipate some of the issues. I am not a small runner either (now), but I have been running for years, still do it regularly amd have kept a good jogging base. One key thing if you want to run is to try and run on soft surfaces and get some *good* shoes (New Balance should cater well for you). If you only do it once in a while you may think that it is expensive, but only this and some training discipline will avoid any injury. I love running. I like running in nice weather (on a beach in Brazil! ;o) but I also enjoy running on dry and cold days (running on a clear sky, cold evening is great). One thing that makes a difference to me is also where I run. Nice locations matter, be they parks, beaches or even towns. At night I also enjoy running with music on.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2009, 05:27:30 pm »
Of course I don't mind - I hold your opinion in high regard because you know a lot more about running than me.

I'm mindful of the fact that I don't have any history of running, so the potential for injury is high. Luckily, it's currently self-limiting as I can only run for about two or three minutes before having to revert to walking so I can swallow a lung.

As I say, it's currently one of three options I'm looking at. Rowing is a real contender because Mrs S is also interested in giving it a go which makes the expense of a rowing machine more justifiable.

However - it sounds like what you are saying is this: Am I sure I can commit to running, because without commitment, it's hard to progress and the risk of injury remains high, is that right? The answer is I don't know. Having never run much before, I can't tell. However, my knee may well be the deciding factor because I don't want to do anything that compromises that.

annie

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2009, 05:43:29 pm »
Chris, might I suggest that you walk before you hit the 3-4 minute mark.  Warm up first with a brisk walk, stretch, then begin.

If you know you are really going to suffer at the 3 - 4 minute mark then why not run for 2 minutes, walk, recover and then run for another 2 minutes.

This is just a suggestion of course and you can ignore it but I wouldn't get to the stage when you feel you are going to cough up a lung, not unless you are sprinting for the finish line.

If you can dedicate 20 minutes then try this:

5 minute warm up and stretch
Run 2 minutes, walk 1 minute x 3 times
Cool down for 5 minutes and stretch

You will find that each time you go out it will get easier and you can increase the time you are jogging/running.

Another tip is to avoid doing the same route every time, especially if it is on a camber, alternate the route if at all possible.

With time it will become easier, you will reap the rewards and you will want to do more. 

Do not be tempted to rush this nor go too far or too fast too soon.

Good luck and see you on a half marathon very soon :demon:

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2009, 05:50:25 pm »
Thanks Annie - this is good stuff  :thumbsup:.

It's a strange thing how specific "fitness" is. When I mention how much I cycle, people say "Gosh, you must be fit!" but the ugly truth is, I'm only fit for cycling. When it comes to something else (running in my case) I'm a bumbling, gasping mess.

And that, I guess, is the essence of Cross Training.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2009, 05:54:32 pm »
When I want to do the Science Park Fun Run (1.1 miles) my first training run is around 8 minutes but the race time is around 7 minutes.  That's from 2 weeks training.  After the first run my legs are sore for a few days but after the race, they're fine.  It's just adaptation.  I probably adapt a bit faster because I have a history of playing 5-a-side football.

annie

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2009, 05:57:02 pm »
Thanks Annie - this is good stuff  :thumbsup:.

It's a strange thing how specific "fitness" is. When I mention how much I cycle, people say "Gosh, you must be fit!" but the ugly truth is, I'm only fit for cycling. When it comes to something else (running in my case) I'm a bumbling, gasping mess.

And that, I guess, is the essence of Cross Training.

The thing is, you have made a start and are motivated, you are half way there already :)

I have a whole host of books and running magazines if you want me to send you some, just say the word.

I do a lot of running off-road and use different shoes for this, trail shoes.  They are lighter and react quite differently to road shoes, given that the ankles are required to work slightly differently.

I know I will never be brilliant at cycling but I am at least ok at running.  I am now about to sit down and work out a structured training plan so that I do it right.


Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2009, 06:09:51 pm »
Annie you are a very light runner. Chris probably needs well cushioned or stability shoes, hence my suggestion for some NB (or Saucony if they still do say the Jazz). Good, purposeful shoes will help with injury limitation.

With Annie's routine, Chris, what you can also try and do as you get fitter is to reduce some of the walking times. Getting a goal when one starts is also good.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

annie

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2009, 06:14:12 pm »
Annie you are a very light runner. Chris probably needs well cushioned or stability shoes, hence my suggestion for some NB (or Saucony if they still do say the Jazz). Good, purposeful shoes will help with injury limitation.

With Annie's routine, Chris, what you can also try and do as you get fitter is to reduce some of the walking times. Getting a goal when one starts is also good.

Yes, good point Frenchie.

Also about reducing the walking times, I reckon within a few weeks that Chris would be able to do this quite easily if he keeps at it.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #99 on: March 18, 2009, 09:37:46 pm »
Night running apparatus, Feb. 2009

Perfect for running in the woods, along the river path... on a crisp winter evening.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse