'The Fred' as an audax

[Revellinho]

The Fred Whitton is an absolute classic on the sportive calendar, one that I am sure many AUK riders have thought about doing.  I suspect more have thought about it than actually done it, so how does it measure up to some of the well known 200s?  To answer this I rode to Coniston today, did the route and rode home again, to get the distance to be over 200k.

It certainly packs a punch and the worst bits are concentrated into the second half.  However, the hills tend to be long and you can get into a ryhthm, unlike some rides where there are a seemingly endless sequence of short punchy climbs.  I think the hardest 200s I have done are Andy Corless' routes around the Pennines & Dales - such as the Tan Hill - and the Tregaron Dragon.  I think 'the Fred' is in the same class as these and if you can ride that sort of 200 it would be well worth a go, as it takes in some of the best views in England, at least on a crisp, sunny day out of the main holiday season.

I certainly found it more amenable than a hard 300 and whereas on the Pendle 600 I walked up the Hardknott and Wrynose, rode them both today (mind you there was no wind!).

See some of you in the Lakes this autumn?

Revs

[Somnolent]

Top Man !
I've looked at the Fred + a loop north of Skiddaw as a 200
Ridden the Chris Walker Challenge (Keswick-Honister-Hardknott-Wrynose-Kirkstone-Keswick) but always walked the steepest ramps on the Harknott and the Wrynose and a 200 would be a fantastic ride on a good day.
I'd DNS on a wet day though, because the descents "cease to be fun".

[mcshroom]

What's not fun about sliding sideways down a wet, steep hill towards a drop?

[mattc]

i had a bash at La Marmotte route as a 200k last year. Finished at about 14.2kph - glorious failure!

And I find myself in Keswick mid-October, so perhaps i should attempt the UK equivalent. Anyone worked out controls for a DIY GPS?!?

[mcshroom]

I'm not sure if they are audax standard controls, but there's already a set of checkpoints for the 'four seasons' perm version of the ride.

http://www.fredwhittonchallenge.org.uk/fourseasons.php

[edit]I'd choose a tea room or pub in Buttermere rather than the YH, and move the Calderbridge control to one of the pubs such as the Lion and the Lamb, or the shop in Gosforth. Also a control at Whinlatter trail centre may be needed to stop someone shortcutting out Newlands and Whinlatter passes, and one somewhere like the Troutbeck Post Office

[Phil W]

I did the Fred Whitton sportive this year; back in May.  The only hill that can catch you out is Cold Fell if the wind is blowing the wrong way. It just goes on and one, false summit after false.  On the event day the feed stations are very well organised.  Police control some of the dangerous junctions.  Locals and supporters gather on the passes and ring cow bells and bang ski sticks together to encourage you.  It's a great event to enter as it is; one of the few sportives I've felt is worth the money. 

The descents can be dangerous.  I saw a girl go off on Wrynose and smash her frame in two. A guy lost control at bottom of Hardknott and hit the wall near the bottom.  On the first major hill, Kirkstone, a guys burst his inner tube, from the heat build up from braking.  I'd think twice about doing it in the rain, unless you have disc brakes...

It's a great round, sportive, audax, or a 2 dayer with an overnight.

[Exit Stage Left]

I did the bulk of the ride on Good Friday 2007 as part of the PBP training regime. I started from Elterwater Youth Hostel and went clockwise, so the opposite way to the Fred Whitton. That gets Wrynose and Harknott out of the way before the traffic builds up, and means climbing Kirkstone the hard way. I rode down The Struggle, as it's fairly dull from the top to Windermere and along the lakeshore to Ambleside. It took me 12 hours, as I was taking it fairly easily, it was about 160km. A loop around Windermere would add about 40km. If you did that first you'd build some time up

[red marley]

I've done the Fred Whitton as a sportive three times, and I'd rate it much tougher than any 200km Audax I've done. That is partly perhaps because at sportive pace I was pushing it a bit harder than an Audax and my total stopped time was probably under 10 minutes in 8 hours. I've only ever made it round once without walking; on the other two occasions having to walk the steep bits of Hardknott.

I think most of the route is stunning, especially some of the western section away from the more famous climbs. The really steep sections of descent on the western side of Honister and off Hardknott I find scarily unpleasant (I've done both in the wet with brakes on full but still accelerating). The descent of Wrynose is OK if you don't let your speed build up, although on one occasion after a very sharp hailstone shower, I walked down rather than follow the overenthusiastic riders fishtailing down with locked back wheels (and burst tyres by the bottom). I've seen a couple of ambulance cases on the descents of both Hardknott and Honister, but that may well be down to a degree of recklessness that a competitive sportive can encourage.

I think if I were designing my own hilly DIY, I'd probably drop the last section over Hardknott and Wrynose and instead go from Eskdale to Coniston via Ulpha and Broughton. This has some lovely sections, still hilly but nothing as steep as the shorter route. If you needed to add a few extra km to make up a 200, I'd consider a detour to Wasdale Head and back for some more stunning views and good soup.

[Revellinho]

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Backbarrow+LA12+8QL&daddr=Coniston+to:Matterdale+End+to:Honister+Pass+to:Braithwaite+to:Croasdale+to:The+Three+Shires+Inn,+Ambleside+to:Backbarrow+LA12+8QL&hl=en&sll=54.442215,-3.19962&sspn=0.761844,2.458191&geocode=FdLXOwMds2rS_yl3KHw9Y718SDHg19cjabFxug%3BFS-bPQMd4hDR_ymhfJuvFb98SDHC4JEKGd6xgw%3BFR8uQQMdUDHT_ynZwmjHaeZ8SDEBWBrrn_kMJg%3BFR7pPwMd-vXO_yljGnermMV8SDFQwAJBbqLwuA%3BFWArQQMdL0rP_ylP_frB8tp8SDGW5_ip_2QnCQ%3BFRZGQAMdSw_M_ykVgrQUdc18SDHzAKl7KedHyA%3BFSxnPgMd8mLR_yGhCMPCsypS2ynfQDhrX8B8SDGhCMPCsypS2w%3BFdLXOwMds2rS_yl3KHw9Y718SDHg19cjabFxug&oq=Backbarrow+LA12+8QL&dirflg=w&doflg=ptk&mra=pr&t=m&z=9

was what I planned, but I rode to Coniston at the end to 'keep it real'.  You can tweak the controls to suit. 

For what it's worth the fred bit took me 10 hours with just a few short sandwich breaks at Matterdale, Whinlatter and Gosforth, add to that half an hour stopping off with some friends in Little Langdale for a natter and the ride to and from Coniston.  In the wet it is undoubtedly dangerous but still OK if you are prepared to go steady.  I know this because I did the 2 big 'uns on New Year's Day this year.  Mind you I have nice fat 28mm Schwalbe Marathons on the bike.  I did notice a chap lose traction on the Newlands Pass and take a little slip and that was on a dry day.

[mcshroom]

I live way too close to the route and you lot are giving me ideas I really don't need 

[Feanor]

I've riden the route of the Fred Whitton ( not on the callendar day ) with some friends.

It's *way* harder than any 200k audax I've ever ridden.

Hardknott 33% at damn near 100 miles in!
And then Wrynose, same but a wee bit less extreme!

It's utterly brutal, and I say that as someone who quite likes the hills.
It's the hardest route I've ever done.

R

[mattc]

Statement of Intent:

Right, the family seem fairly relaxed about next week, so if I get a nice day I'll give this a go. Keswick start (which at first glance might be a little easier). I'll aim for 15kph, but a nice (if long) day out will make a decent consolation prize.

Being midweek I doubt I'll get any company, but ping me before lunchtime if you might be around sometime next week.

Matt

[Revellinho]

Good luck - forecast is pretty poor after Monday though - at least as it stands atm.  The section from Keswick to Gosforth is pretty poor for getting food quickly except for

http://melbreakcommunities.wordpress.com/services/lorton-village-shop/

near the bottom of the Whinlatter.

After that you are fine with good pie shops in Gosforth, Ambleside, Coniston, Patterdale, Glenridding.  I find that stopping at places like the Honister mines cafe, Whinlatter Forest cafe and the station cafe in Eskdale just take up a lot of time.

[mcshroom]

There's a shop in the caravan park in Lamplugh (as long as it's open in October) and there's a pub (Shepherd's Arms) in Ennerdale Bridge just before you climb Cold Fell

[mattc]

Thanks chaps. I was worried the western parts would be a bit desert-like. Although that's less of a worry if I'm getting them out of the way first (I can carry some food, and water won't be a big problem). I tend not to stop for long when solo, especially with time pressure. (I know, noone will believe this.)

Weather is actually looking quite good (for the season) ! There's always the wimp option of Honister-Crummock Water-Wrynose-Thirlmere-Keswick. The highlights package, easily done in daylight