Author Topic: Arrivée est arrivé!  (Read 214840 times)

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2008, 12:29:20 pm »
I think there would be a danger of unregistered riders coming along for the ride.
Such riders would be the same risk as the temp members and would sponge off the organisers' efforts and resources.

D0m1n1c Burford

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2008, 01:22:35 pm »
I managed to get two articles published  8)  Must get round to getting a photo of myself on the bike, as I didn't have any when I submitted the articles.  But then, maybe that's a good thing  :D

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2008, 01:58:04 pm »
I managed to get two articles published 
... hence the new record size of the magazine ... ;)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

D0m1n1c Burford

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2008, 02:10:02 pm »
I managed to get two articles published 
... hence the new record size of the magazine ... ;)

Maybe I should submit a series of Teethgrinder length articles for the next issue  ;D

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2008, 02:20:56 pm »
How realistic would it be to close rides to non-members?  The £15 joining fee isn't exactly expensive*.  I understand that a counter argument would be that you don't want to discourage new members by not allowing them a taster before they join.
Joining fee with a refund if not into it after one ride?  Too much admin?

* To me, obviously.  But even then, it's only a fraction of the amount of money most people spend on a bike.  Or down the pub.

Depends upon individual circumstances.  A bling bike may be a legacy, a last big purchase before retirement / redundancy, etc. 

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2008, 02:53:56 pm »
Look at the most recent BP rides for an idea of the numbers of non-members that ride them...

12 members, 15 non members
25 members, 20 non members
10 members, 5 non members
0 members, 15 non members
8 members, 51 non members
10 members, 15 non members
31 members, 32 non members
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2008, 03:02:40 pm »
How realistic would it be to close rides to non-members? 

Looking at the results, many events have a significant proportion of entrants made up of non-members so the effect might be that these events are no longer viable. I don't think it's realistic to expect all entrants to be members. Audaxes that are organised by a local club often attract a large number of club members who would never otherwise ride an audax but who turn out to support the club's event.

We must also retain try before you buy option. I entered my first audax as a non-member and at the time I didn't have a clue what to expect and for all I knew it could have been the only audax I ever entered. Of course, on completing the event I thought "hell I enjoyed that - I must join" but I didn't know that in advance and if joining was a prerequisite I may not have given it a try.

If insurance is withdrawn (whether for non-members or all) I wonder whether we'd have to insist that all entrants must have their own cover. If we didn't, is it possible that claims against organisers might result from running an event with uninsured cyclists, who cannot be identified (by a number) and in any case who may not be traceable (EOLs - no proof of address)?

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2008, 04:50:08 pm »
The whole insurance thing is just an example of how our society is being crippled by the selfish

Firstly, it is not possible to run events etc without insurance
Secondly, there is a common belief that any claim vs insurance is perfectly ok provided you can "get away with it". 
Thirdly, the insurance companies are becoming more risk adverse so anything that does claim will be removed from the list of insurable things

Therefore, shortly we won't be able to run any events.  Just because of the twonkish nature of the way these things are. 

Insurance should be a cushion against very very unlikely events that any sane person would mitigate against.  Not some kind of unlucky lottery.
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mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2008, 05:01:34 pm »
What do the sportyteef people do? I presume that some-kind-of-cover is included in the entry fee - if so, this suggests that an Ins Co is prepared to insure, say, 200 riders on a 1-off basis.

So maybe AUK could use the same arrangement to cover non-members (probably increasing the non-members supplement), thus keeping our members-only cover affordable.

The whole insurance thing is just an example of how our society is being crippled by the selfish
+1

Firstly, it is not possible to run events etc without insurance
<snip>
Therefore, shortly we won't be able to run any events.  Just because of the twonkish nature of the way these things are. 
When _I_ run the country, the government will provide some sort of backup cover for extreme compensation claims made against organisers of health-promoting events. Thus the insurance will remain affordable to organisers.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2008, 06:05:18 pm »
I've only had the chance to read as far as the letters page, but the "PBP Egos" letter has to be a piss-take, right?

 :-\

So you didn't spit tea all over your copy when reading the letter bemoaning the unfinished story of your epic 600 and speculating about whether you or Charlotte got to ride off into the sunset with Steve?!

The plot twists there would rival sunset beach!

I have a sort of sympathy for the PBP egos thing as the entry to some controls (don't forget I bailed, so can only comment on the early ones) was pretty clogged with motorhomes parked up all along the streets. However, I found the controls well-organised and the people lovely, but then I speak pretty good French, so there were no communication problems at all.


frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2008, 06:07:07 pm »
If insurance is withdrawn (whether for non-members or all) I wonder whether we'd have to insist that all entrants must have their own cover.

There's no way an Organiser can be expected to make an assessment of how valid (or not) each entrant's insurance might be.

So you end up relying on signing it off (as is done at present - I have relevant insurance cover as above or I enclose the £2.00 temporary membership fee. ) but is that sort of disclaimer really strong enough if push comes to shove?  Personally I doubt it.
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2008, 06:29:37 pm »
I managed to get two articles published 
... hence the new record size of the magazine ... ;)

Maybe I should submit a series of Teethgrinder length articles for the next issue  ;D

Bloody show off!
They never put my article in this time.
I'll send in another one.
That'll teach 'em.

Tim got a lot of articles in and there were too many for this edition, so the backlog will be in the next Arrivee.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2008, 06:41:56 pm »
Bah. Still not arrived.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

frere yacker

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2008, 06:44:08 pm »
Quote
Tim got a lot of articles in and there were too many for this edition, so the backlog will be in the next Arrivee.

With fewer "new to audax" articles?  n00bs with inner tubes  ::-)

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2008, 07:24:40 pm »
Quote
Tim got a lot of articles in and there were too many for this edition, so the backlog will be in the next Arrivee.

With fewer "new to audax" articles?  n00bs with inner tubes  ::-)

They can only publish what they are sent.

RogerT

  • Playing with a big steamy thing
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2008, 07:40:34 pm »
Excellent article by a certain Mercian rider of this Parish who is often mistaken for Pierre Noel.  Reading between the lines I fancy that his speed is becoming a little to fast  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

valkyrie

  • Look at the state of your face!
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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2008, 07:52:56 pm »
I didn't really understand the insurance issue  :-[.

If people are making spurious claims against the AUK policy, surely the insurance company just (correctly) rejects them? I've never come across an insurance company that pays out when it doesn't have to. I can't see an obvious correlation between organisers reporting "incidents" and valid 3rd party claims on AUK's insurance.
World Class Excuses for Piss-Poor Performances

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2008, 07:55:26 pm »
I thought that the range of articles in the recent issue was the best for quite a while. I've always thought it odd that while the bulk of the membership do not cross the 200 km threshold that the magazine should be dominated by articles of 400km+ rides. But like the man says he can only publish what he's sent.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2008, 07:59:30 pm »
I don't think the claims are really spurious. 'Where there's blame, there's a claim' is the sort of attitude that many now have, and less experienced riders seem both much more likely to be involved in a crash and to make a claim.

frere yacker

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2008, 08:00:20 pm »
I didn't really understand the insurance issue  :-[.

If people are making spurious claims against the AUK policy, surely the insurance company just (correctly) rejects them? I've never come across an insurance company that pays out when it doesn't have to. I can't see an obvious correlation between organisers reporting "incidents" and valid 3rd party claims on AUK's insurance.

Increased claims (even failed ones) can be taken by underwriters as indicating increased risk.  Increased risk means increased premiums or in extreme cases withdrawal of insurance.

A similar thing happened in professional indemnity insurance.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2008, 09:35:45 pm »
Am I missing something? I thought the £2 covered day membership of AUK; Shirley the club doesn't have to send all the non-member fees off.

(Alex G; those figures of non-members don't take into account CTC/BC riders who are insured although may not be members; IMX they greatly outnumber those who pay the £2).


Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2008, 11:28:01 pm »
I don't think the claims are really spurious. 'Where there's blame, there's a claim' is the sort of attitude that many now have, and less experienced riders seem both much more likely to be involved in a crash and to make a claim.

I'd guess that most of the problem claims are due to touching wheels in a group or similar, so the best thing would probably be to remove all cycling equipment and clothing from what's covered.
That would leave the insurance covering claims for physical injury or for damage to 3rd party motor vehicles or whatever, which is the sort of claim that the insurance is meant to protect you against, IMO.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2008, 01:00:22 am »
I'd guess that most of the problem claims are due to touching wheels in a group or similar, so the best thing would probably be to remove all cycling equipment and clothing from what's covered.
That would leave the insurance covering claims for physical injury or for damage to 3rd party motor vehicles or whatever, which is the sort of claim that the insurance is meant to protect you against, IMO.

I'd be surprised if claims for such things amount to very much in the scheme of things: you can replace a lot of cycling equipment before you get to the cost of having a dent in a car repaired, and that pails into insignificance when you look at physical injury... If an insurance company is using claims relating to other bikes to push up the premium, then they are being very cheeky, IMO.

Duncan

vorsprung

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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2008, 09:02:28 am »
Oh yeah and another thing

The rosy fun "weasel" article about the Somerset Moors 300 forgot to mention that the ride was a really torturous, slow and irritating way to cover 300k

Despite it being local and the conditions being good this was my slowest ever 300.  I have never seen more crappy lanes joined up into a route.  There wasn't enough fast road to cover 300k in a reasonable fashion.

But from reading the article you'd think it was tea and cake and a pleasant roll round.

If I can think of a polite way of putting this maybe I'll write a letter to Arrivee
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2008, 10:07:14 am »
Oh yeah and another thing

The rosy fun "weasel" article about the Somerset Moors 300 forgot to mention that the ride was a really torturous, slow and irritating way to cover 300k
You clearly feel quite strongly about this ... !
Quote
If I can think of a polite way of putting this maybe I'll write a letter to Arrivee
You could approach it as giving advice to future riders e.g.
"although a pretty ride, be aware that this ride is not fast, much slower than the climbing figure would suggest, due to a complete lack of fast roads, and lots of poor surfaces."
... or something ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles