[LEL17] LEL 2017

[Arry-R]

True  PB bear  (Chris Averys) received validation - thanks Bernard

[D.A.L.E.]

One of the staff at the Alston garage/mini-market noticed my LEL top whilst I was on The Old 240 this weekend.  She asked 'when the next audax is', meaning the next LEL.  She asked for the dates, but I couldn't tell her off hand.  She commented that there was a group of riders waiting outside for coffee/breakfast etc when they opened in the morning.  I think she was implying that if they had a bit of notice they would be better prepared.  They might even open early/late?  I said I would pass it on, so hope this suffices.

The guy in the Cumbrian Pantry seemed keen to get involved as it were too.

[alwyn]

One of the staff at the Alston garage/mini-market noticed my LEL top whilst I was on The Old 240 this weekend.  She asked 'when the next audax is', meaning the next LEL.  She asked for the dates, but I couldn't tell her off hand.  She commented that there was a group of riders waiting outside for coffee/breakfast etc when they opened in the morning.  I think she was implying that if they had a bit of notice they would be better prepared.  They might even open early/late?  I said I would pass it on, so hope this suffices.

Many thanks. We're going to have some facilities in Alston this time round, and the chap responsible has already spoken to the manager.

[markram]

I just made a rough schedule:
[...]
Assumption is in this schedule that you ride (except for the first stage) 15km/h including stops between the sleepstops, for the return leg a tad slower.

Thanks. I guess it would be best to adjust this so that the sleep-stops on the way up and on the way down correspond with each other?

Absolutely no need to match sleep stops north and south. Just have them when you need them.

The only justiification for aiming to sleep at same places north & south would be to access bag drops at sleep both ways.   Then you don't have to carry your teddy bear and pyjamas with you.  The problem with that is that it tends to lock you (mentally) into a schedule, and you either stop to sleep before you need to - or you push on in increasingly tired state, going slower and slower, trying to reach the control where your bag drop is....& by the time you get there you've no time to sleep anyway, and are in too befuddled a state of mind to use the contents of the bag.  DAMHIKT 

Right. Assuming by teddy bear & pyjamas, you mean change of clothes, would you stop & shower/change clothes at the bag drop even if it wasn't your sleep stop?

[Ivo]

I just made a rough schedule:
[...]
Assumption is in this schedule that you ride (except for the first stage) 15km/h including stops between the sleepstops, for the return leg a tad slower.

Thanks. I guess it would be best to adjust this so that the sleep-stops on the way up and on the way down correspond with each other?

Absolutely no need to match sleep stops north and south. Just have them when you need them.

The only justiification for aiming to sleep at same places north & south would be to access bag drops at sleep both ways.   Then you don't have to carry your teddy bear and pyjamas with you.  The problem with that is that it tends to lock you (mentally) into a schedule, and you either stop to sleep before you need to - or you push on in increasingly tired state, going slower and slower, trying to reach the control where your bag drop is....& by the time you get there you've no time to sleep anyway, and are in too befuddled a state of mind to use the contents of the bag.  DAMHIKT 

Right. Assuming by teddy bear & pyjamas, you mean change of clothes, would you stop & shower/change clothes at the bag drop even if it wasn't your sleep stop?

I would and have done so in the past.

[Somnolent]

.... would you stop & shower/change clothes at the bag drop even if it wasn't your sleep stop?

I don't ever recall doing so. 
But a shower /change of clothes certainly has a strong revitalising effect, if one wakes up and thinks "that was not a long enough sleep".
Sufficiently so, that it's worth carrying at least a tiny bottle of shower gel, toothpaste & sawn-off toothbrush, even a diposable razor, possibly a fresh jersey & shorts, just in case you don't manage to link up with drop bag at opportune moment.

[Cooky516]

All sounds good advice so far, as a first timer my question is how you all plan a strategy? where to stop? How do you split the ride up?
Any advice on this would be helpful. 

[Greenbank]

All sounds good advice so far, as a first timer my question is how you all plan a strategy? where to stop? How do you split the ride up?
Any advice on this would be helpful.

Guess and be prepared to throw the plan away and have to come up with a completely new one (which may only last 200km, etc.)

Have you ridden a 600km ride? If so, how far in did you sleep? When did you start to feel (sleepy) tired? Did you finish comfortably in time or are you more of a full value rider?

If you've not done a 600km Audax, what's the longest ride you've done and how did you feel?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yesterday I had a sneak preview of the event-specific jerseys the Thai riders are bringing to LEL. Very classy.

[Phil W]

Yep, grab a shower and put on your fresh kit. Showers don't have to be just before or after a sleep.

[Dominic]

Hoping to do this as a first timer aswell, not sure about working out strategies until I have secured a place, but one intention will be to ride an SR series before the event to try and sort out equipment choices!

[Rohnny]

Yesterday I had a sneak preview of the event-specific jerseys the Thai riders are bringing to LEL. Very classy.

I hope there will be a thai rider as big as I am, so we can exchange jerseys!

[john jackson]

.... would you stop & shower/change clothes at the bag drop even if it wasn't your sleep stop?

I don't ever recall doing so. 
But a shower /change of clothes certainly has a strong revitalising effect, if one wakes up and thinks "that was not a long enough sleep".
Sufficiently so, that it's worth carrying at least a tiny bottle of shower gel, toothpaste & sawn-off toothbrush, even a diposable razor, possibly a fresh jersey & shorts, just in case you don't manage to link up with drop bag at opportune moment.

None of my bag drops were at the sleep stops in 2013
My bag drop had clean kit, I showered and changed kit at my bag drop. At the sleep stops I showered put on a tee shirt / non-cycling shorts which  I carried with me. to sleep in.
Showered and sleeping in comfortable clothing gave me a good nights sleep. I plan to do the same in 2017.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yesterday I had a sneak preview of the event-specific jerseys the Thai riders are bringing to LEL. Very classy.

I hope there will be a thai rider as big as I am, so we can exchange jerseys!

There only a dozen or so aiming to go and most of them are not built to Dutch dimensions. Good luck.

[Greenbank]

All sounds good advice so far, as a first timer my question is how you all plan a strategy? where to stop? How do you split the ride up?
Any advice on this would be helpful.

Guess and be prepared to throw the plan away and have to come up with a completely new one (which may only last 200km, etc.)

Have you ridden a 600km ride? If so, how far in did you sleep? When did you start to feel (sleepy) tired? Did you finish comfortably in time or are you more of a full value rider?

If you've not done a 600km Audax, what's the longest ride you've done and how did you feel?

FWIW my initial plan for LEL 2009 was to cover the minimum required a day (24h * 12kph = 288km) and then sleep until I should be moving again.

This meant getting to the control at ~320km at the end of day 1 (the previous control wasn't far enough) and then eating/resting/sleeping until about 6am.
Day 2 ended up at a control about 620km. Again I set off early on Day 3, but the atrocious weather set in and slowed things (and most people) down.
I left the 800km control with 5 hours in hand and lost a small amount of time (thanks to a 1h emergency nap) by the time I got to the ~900km control.
I slept at the 900km control until I was on the time limit and then plodded on through the mildly hilly terrain.

My next sleep stop was at the 1100km control. I arrived with ~2 hours in hand but left slightly behind the time limits but knew I'd make it up by the next control as the weather was nice and I'd done all of the hills.

http://www.greenbank.org/misc/lel_time_in_hand.jpg

An afternoon start time makes it more interesting, on PBP 2011 I just rode straight through the first night after my 8pm start time (to get more time in hand) with the plan of having a bigger sleep at the end of night 2. It worked (kind of).

However, I'm lucky in that I can get by on 3h sleep a night during events like this (although spending 3 hours chatting to people at the 800km control on LEL 2009 would have been far better spent sleeping, I paid for that mistake shortly afterwards!)

[alwyn]

Yesterday I had a sneak preview of the event-specific jerseys the Thai riders are bringing to LEL. Very classy.

I hope there will be a thai rider as big as I am, so we can exchange jerseys!

There only a dozen or so aiming to go and most of them are not built to Dutch dimensions. Good luck.

We have about 25 Thai entrants already. I met some of them at 1001 miglia and they were pretty stocky lads. Not tall though.

[Cooky516]

All sounds good advice so far, as a first timer my question is how you all plan a strategy? where to stop? How do you split the ride up?
Any advice on this would be helpful.

Guess and be prepared to throw the plan away and have to come up with a completely new one (which may only last 200km, etc.)

Have you ridden a 600km ride? If so, how far in did you sleep? When did you start to feel (sleepy) tired? Did you finish comfortably in time or are you more of a full value rider?

If you've not done a 600km Audax, what's the longest ride you've done and how did you feel?

FWIW my initial plan for LEL 2009 was to cover the minimum required a day (24h * 12kph = 288km) and then sleep until I should be moving again.

This meant getting to the control at ~320km at the end of day 1 (the previous control wasn't far enough) and then eating/resting/sleeping until about 6am.
Day 2 ended up at a control about 620km. Again I set off early on Day 3, but the atrocious weather set in and slowed things (and most people) down.
I left the 800km control with 5 hours in hand and lost a small amount of time (thanks to a 1h emergency nap) by the time I got to the ~900km control.
I slept at the 900km control until I was on the time limit and then plodded on through the mildly hilly terrain.

My next sleep stop was at the 1100km control. I arrived with ~2 hours in hand but left slightly behind the time limits but knew I'd make it up by the next control as the weather was nice and I'd done all of the hills.

http://www.greenbank.org/misc/lel_time_in_hand.jpg

An afternoon start time makes it more interesting, on PBP 2011 I just rode straight through the first night after my 8pm start time (to get more time in hand) with the plan of having a bigger sleep at the end of night 2. It worked (kind of).

However, I'm lucky in that I can get by on 3h sleep a night during events like this (although spending 3 hours chatting to people at the 800km control on LEL 2009 would have been far better spent sleeping, I paid for that mistake shortly afterwards!)

Brilliant answer, and thank you. It gives me food for thought. I've done 200km before which is my longest as part of a week from  Farnborough to Montrose.
I like your idea of setting your minimum for the day and then rest for the remaining hours.i was really just interested in how people go about planning.


 

[perpetual dan]

Oh dear. I appear to be taking an interest, despite a woeful lack of riding for the last few years.

[Somnolent]

Bear in mind that the northern parts are hillier than the south.   But even on the hillier parts you should be able to continue to build up  margin for sleep time (against the 12kph which is used for control time closing).

My approach, as a full value rider, is to say, whatever my start time, Sunday is not going be a full day.  Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are going to be full days (dawn until sometime after dusk) - I'm aiming for at least 300km on each of those days.  The remaing 500km is split between the Sunday and the Thursday, according to what the start time is.

But, as others have said, stay flexible.  Don't stop 'early' because you've already reached your 'target' for the day.  But conversely don't push on when you are too tired to ride safely (or are just going to squander sleep time because you are riding slower & slower, stubbornly sticking to a 'plan').   I was certainly guilty of the latter in 2013. 

[Bunker22]

So just to be clear?... there will be no control 'closing time' for a rider, until the very last one at 116:40. That makes it much easier to plan as you just have to ride 1400k in 116:40 and dont have to worry about intermediate times.

[Greenbank]

So just to be clear?... there will be no control 'closing time' for a rider, until the very last one at 116:40. That makes it much easier to plan as you just have to ride 1400k in 116:40 and dont have to worry about intermediate times.

I'm sure there will be control closing times. Think of the extremes; I don't think the first control (~100km) will be open until much more than a few hours after the last riders are supposed to be through. It's certainly not going to be open for days after that (until it's due to open for the fastest riders coming back South). Nor will it close the second the 12kph time limit is up for the last starting group.

If you have an early start time then the controls will still be officially open for the later start riders for hours after they have closed for you. (8am start vs 4pm start gives 8 hours 'spare', if such a wide spread of start times is offered). I wouldn't want to count on there being anything more than a few hours leeway after that.

As long as someone is making steady progress towards the finish (and would finish within the time limit) I'm sure that will be fine. What 'no control closing times' does not mean is that you can sit around at the start for 2 days and then smash the whole thing in just under 70 hours.

I, personally, would never consider a plan that has me arriving at a control when it has officially closed for me. Leaving a control when it has officially closed isn't a problem if I'm confident I can make it up on the next leg (and I've had to do this before).

[Fidgetbuzz]

I suspect that there is the equivalent of a control closing time ie .. when the controller and vols have stayed beyond the correct closing time .. and have decided to pack up and go home.   When is that time going to be  .. dont know .. but why not make life simpler and ride to the control times .. it can not be reasonable to arrive 6 hours late at a control  claiming  that this time can be made up.. because for sure you ain't going to get food and  TLC etc.

[Bunker22]

So just to be clear?... there will be no control 'closing time' for a rider, until the very last one at 116:40. That makes it much easier to plan as you just have to ride 1400k in 116:40 and dont have to worry about intermediate times.

I'm sure there will be control closing times. Think of the extremes; I don't think the first control (~100km) will be open until much more than a few hours after the last riders are supposed to be through. It's certainly not going to be open for days after that (until it's due to open for the fastest riders coming back South). Nor will it close the second the 12kph time limit is up for the last starting group.

If you have an early start time then the controls will still be officially open for the later start riders for hours after they have closed for you. (8am start vs 4pm start gives 8 hours 'spare', if such a wide spread of start times is offered). I wouldn't want to count on there being anything more than a few hours leeway after that.

As long as someone is making steady progress towards the finish (and would finish within the time limit) I'm sure that will be fine. What 'no control closing times' does not mean is that you can sit around at the start for 2 days and then smash the whole thing in just under 70 hours.

I, personally, would never consider a plan that has me arriving at a control when it has officially closed for me. Leaving a control when it has officially closed isn't a problem if I'm confident I can make it up on the next leg (and I've had to do this before).

agreed, I should have added 'within reason' to my posting.

That said you then have a little more leeway to a closed control with an earlier start time than you do to the last start time.

[alwyn]

Yeah, heading north as far as Brampton, you're going to be fine even with a large deficit.

However I've told controllers that once they've reached their official close time for their last groups of riders, they're free to pack up and go home. I've asked them to keep stamping cards for as long as they're there, but once they've gone, you won't be able to get a stamp.

What this means is that you'll need to sort out any deficits from starting late and sleeping early by Moffat. After this, it's strictly at your own risk.

Of course you could carry on riding back to London. We'll be at the finish for a while after the control closes. You probably won't get validated, though I'll probably give you a medal as a keepsake for being a good sport. And you'll have all the memories of the ride and the fact that you did at least finish it.

[Karla]

The easiest way to avoid all this kerfuffle is to get training and ride faster.  High impact interval training FTW!