Author Topic: Cambrian Series Permanents  (Read 59542 times)

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #175 on: July 30, 2014, 09:28:38 am »
"Bwlch three goes" sounds like a cracking challenge!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5474522

Bala > BYG north ascent> Vyrnwy> Dinas> BYG South ascent >Bala>Hirnnat > Vyrnwy> BYG east ascent >Bala,

avoids going DOWN the south side 2 x north side descents, 1 x east side descent

c 128km, 2 400m ascent
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #176 on: July 30, 2014, 10:12:31 am »
"Bwlch three goes" sounds like a cracking challenge!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5474522

Bala > BYG north ascent> Vyrnwy> Dinas> BYG South ascent >Bala>Hirnnat > Vyrnwy> BYG east ascent >Bala,

avoids going DOWN the south side 2 x north side descents, 1 x east side descent

c 128km, 2 400m ascent

Ooh nasty

I like it  8)
Does not play well with others

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #177 on: July 30, 2014, 10:48:17 am »
The Bwlch near me - south of Treorchy can be ascended from 3 sides - they do this on the Dragon Ride.

Quite a famous climb in it's own right - but pleasant rather than Brutal - alpine style gradients. I'll stick with that for the time being ;D

It's in the top 100 British climbs too but - iirc - got 1/10 as opposed to Bwlch-y-Groes' 11/10 - a bit unfair I think as it's great - not massively challenging (even I can sail up it) but great views nevertheless - you can combine it with Rhigos, Maerdy (that *is* brutal) and many other climbs nearby too. There's a calendar ride that does these if it still exists - the Rhondda Traverse grimpeur I believe
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #178 on: July 30, 2014, 01:17:40 pm »
The standard Bwlch is a 6/10 I believe. It's a cracking climb, although unlike the book, I think the climb from Treorchy is the poorest out of the 3. I especially like the climb from the West as you are gradually climbing at 1-3% for about 5 miles, before the lovely surface ramps up to 6-10% towards the top, as close to an alpine climb I have ridden.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #179 on: July 30, 2014, 01:37:09 pm »
I've only been down that side and up the other 2 - out of the 2 sides I've done the most challenging is from Ogmore Vale as that does get quite steep a couple of times.
I only recently discovered the side descending to Neath this month- I always thought I'd been to the top - but turning off towards Neath at 'the top' reveals that  - 'Oh no you haven't  ::-) '  Still quite a lot to go I discovered.  Yeah it's a long descent that way, I'd be interested to go up it that way for sure.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #180 on: July 30, 2014, 03:25:44 pm »
"Bwlch three goes" sounds like a cracking challenge!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5474522

Bala > BYG north ascent> Vyrnwy> Dinas> BYG South ascent >Bala>Hirnnat > Vyrnwy> BYG east ascent >Bala,

avoids going DOWN the south side 2 x north side descents, 1 x east side descent

c 128km, 2 400m ascent

Ooh nasty

I like it  8)

perhaps this then could be a Camb perm forum ride as a DIY ? Such jolly fun I might try to ride it....
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #181 on: July 30, 2014, 04:25:05 pm »
"Bwlch three goes" sounds like a cracking challenge!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5474522

Bala > BYG north ascent> Vyrnwy> Dinas> BYG South ascent >Bala>Hirnnat > Vyrnwy> BYG east ascent >Bala,

avoids going DOWN the south side 2 x north side descents, 1 x east side descent

c 128km, 2 400m ascent

Ooh nasty

I like it  8)

perhaps this then could be a Camb perm forum ride as a DIY ? Such jolly fun I might try to ride it....

Yes, although, I suspect getting it done in the time limit for a 100 with that much over distance and that much brutal climbing may actually be tough...when you think the 1A with 2200 was pretty tough?? We could extend to a 200?
Does not play well with others

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #182 on: July 30, 2014, 04:27:42 pm »
"Bwlch three goes" sounds like a cracking challenge!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5474522

Bala > BYG north ascent> Vyrnwy> Dinas> BYG South ascent >Bala>Hirnnat > Vyrnwy> BYG east ascent >Bala,

avoids going DOWN the south side 2 x north side descents, 1 x east side descent

c 128km, 2 400m ascent

Ooh nasty

I like it  8)

perhaps this then could be a Camb perm forum ride as a DIY ? Such jolly fun I might try to ride it....

Yes, although, I suspect getting it done in the time limit for a 100 with that much over distance and that much brutal climbing may actually be tough...when you think the 1A with 2200 was pretty tough?? We could extend to a 200?

from what I understood a 100km DIY gets BP timings ---so this would have a 12hr limit; -----10kph minm speed
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #183 on: July 30, 2014, 04:30:38 pm »
"Bwlch three goes" sounds like a cracking challenge!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5474522

Bala > BYG north ascent> Vyrnwy> Dinas> BYG South ascent >Bala>Hirnnat > Vyrnwy> BYG east ascent >Bala,

avoids going DOWN the south side 2 x north side descents, 1 x east side descent

c 128km, 2 400m ascent

Ooh nasty

I like it  8)

perhaps this then could be a Camb perm forum ride as a DIY ? Such jolly fun I might try to ride it....

Yes, although, I suspect getting it done in the time limit for a 100 with that much over distance and that much brutal climbing may actually be tough...when you think the 1A with 2200 was pretty tough?? We could extend to a 200?

from what I understood a 100km DIY gets BP timings ---so this would have a 12hr limit; -----10kph minm speed

Ah that's alright then, I could probably walk it at that pace  ;D
Does not play well with others

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #184 on: July 30, 2014, 05:03:03 pm »
a 100km DIY gets BP timings......  .....10kph minm speed

Correct. Not always known. Often worth bearing in mind, eg for very hilly rides, and when you want to ride further than the shortest (counting) distance.

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #185 on: July 30, 2014, 09:53:11 pm »
a 100km DIY gets BP timings......  .....10kph minm speed

Correct. Not always known. Often worth bearing in mind, eg for very hilly rides, and when you want to ride further than the shortest (counting) distance.

----I didn`t know eitehr until you pointed this out to me recently---thanks !! :thumbsup:
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #186 on: August 01, 2014, 08:59:52 am »
Looks like there is enough interest.  The key will be finding controls. 

As an aside Zigzag and I did a route around Le Bourg d'Oisans last month - Le Bourg d'Oisans - Col du Sarenne - Les Deux Alpes - D211a - Garde D'Huez - Le Bourg d'Oisans - Villard Notre Dame - Col de Saulude - Villard Raymon - Le Bourg d'Oisans which managed 3600m ascent in 108km which is my new gold standard.  But I don't think we had much over 11% on that route.  We had an hour for lunch and a bit of faffing to top our water supplies so if we'd set our minds to it we would just have got round at 15kph.
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #187 on: August 01, 2014, 09:29:56 am »
33.3m/km!

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #188 on: August 01, 2014, 10:37:18 am »
As an aside Zigzag and I did a route around Le Bourg d'Oisans last month - Le Bourg d'Oisans - Col du Sarenne - Les Deux Alpes - D211a - Garde D'Huez - Le Bourg d'Oisans - Villard Notre Dame - Col de Saulude - Villard Raymon - Le Bourg d'Oisans which managed 3600m ascent in 108km which is my new gold standard.  But I don't think we had much over 11% on that route.  We had an hour for lunch and a bit of faffing to top our water supplies so if we'd set our minds to it we would just have got round at 15kph.

what a fantastic day it was!.. btw, strava suggests there was much more climbing http://www.strava.com/activities/161873055


marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #189 on: August 01, 2014, 10:43:10 am »
33.3m/km!

Indeed.  I can just scrape above that with 6700m in 190km - 35.2m/km - but no way I could have done it at 15kph!
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #190 on: August 01, 2014, 01:38:39 pm »
The STRAVA profile of the Bourg d'Oisans epic explains why I'm suspicious of GPS based ascent ratings.  4979m over 107.5km is 46.3m ascent per kilometere.  We started and finished at the same point so we must have done the same amount of descent as we did ascent.  So we also average 46.3m descent per kilometre.  That means the average gradient of the ride is 92.6m per kilometre or 9.26%.  I've seen various published figures of the average gradient of Alpe d'Huez and Les Deux Alpes but none of them get anywhere near 9.26%.  Given that the last 3km were pan flat (Zigzag easily won the sprint) that means that the Col du Saulude would have had to have been pretty vertical, which it wasn't. 

Hence my rather anal devotion to contour counts.  In the Alps these tend to work very well - you can often measure the ascent pretty accurately through spot heights as the road is either going up or down.  So the 3600m figure is likely to be quite accurate given that I checked the entire route on the excellent French topo maps.

Consequently the Cambrian Series rides have AAA ratings based on contour counts and not GPS based ratings.  If you are used to using GPS based ascent figures and then use the published Cambrian Series ascents as a guide you will find the rides significantly harder than you were expecting.  As you can see from the above Strava is giving a figure of 35% higher than the actual.  This is quite an extreme factor - its usually more like 15% but even 15% on a 3500m ascent ride is 525m you weren't anticipating - which is coindentally close to the height of Bwlch y Groes from sea level  :thumbsup: :smug: :smug: :thumbsup:
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #191 on: August 01, 2014, 02:17:20 pm »
Well Strava can be a joke - here in Cardiff it has a segment it claims as a cat 4 climb. - except it's the cardiff Bay Barrage (walk across the harbour from Cardiff Bay to Penarth) - it's hard to be more as flat as a pancake than that.


it does have the Tiger Bay docks on one side though - I suspect there's some sort of conning tower there that farks up the GPS devices :D
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #192 on: August 06, 2014, 07:55:26 am »
Cambrian 8A on 16-17 August from Llanidloes anyone? A nice post Mille Cymru warm down ;D

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #193 on: August 06, 2014, 10:32:10 am »
Cambrian 8A on 16-17 August from Llanidloes anyone? A nice post Mille Cymru warm down ;D

Weekend after would be tempting - would have BH to recover!  ;D
Does not play well with others

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #194 on: August 06, 2014, 12:35:53 pm »
Cambrian 8A on 16-17 August from Llanidloes anyone? A nice post Mille Cymru warm down ;D

Weekend after would be tempting - would have BH to recover!  ;D

BH may be a possibility if the weather is, shall we say, "Welsh" on 16-17th. But it's still summer and I've been lucky on my Celtic rides so far this year....

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #195 on: August 06, 2014, 01:18:38 pm »
Cambrian 8A on 16-17 August from Llanidloes anyone? A nice post Mille Cymru warm down ;D

Not me this time.  Red Bull Air Race at Ascot that weekend and CET Junior's first 200k the following weekend.  Two wheels will be just for recreation this year as the Dorset Coast Ultramarathon has been extended to 45 miles will have to use up my Brownie points for running training  :(
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #196 on: August 06, 2014, 04:03:33 pm »
Cambrian 8A on 16-17 August from Llanidloes anyone? A nice post Mille Cymru warm down ;D

Weekend after would be tempting - would have BH to recover!  ;D

would be tempted but am away in Ireland consuming Guiness in a camper van  :thumbsup:
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #197 on: August 16, 2014, 06:46:52 pm »
Have found a neat Excel formula so have put together some stats on the Cambrian series rides from 2008 onwards (effectively when I took them over).   There have been 243 brevets issued and 117 rides completed.  The events waiting a completion are:

3D, 4A, 4D, 4E, 4F, 4G, and 6A (although there is an attempt happening very soon on the 4G).  I rode the 4D in 2006 and the 4F and 4G have effectively been ridden as together they make up the 8A.

The most popular events by completion are the 2B (38 completions - although a high proportion of these are by one rider), 1B (12 completions), 2A (12 completions)

The 3A is the most popular longer ride (6 completions) - although there are a quite a few brevets out there not completed - remember there is no time limit on the cards - if you have one I've sent out you can use it whenever you like (up until I give up organising).
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #198 on: August 16, 2014, 10:33:51 pm »
Wow, that makes me feel rather better about last years ride.  I didn't realise I was one of only 6 who've done the 3A


I find that rather hard to believe in fact - presumably more people did it before you took them over...?

It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Lars

  • n.b. have shaved off beard since photo taken
Re: Cambrian Series Permanents
« Reply #199 on: August 17, 2014, 12:15:40 pm »
I'm toying with the idea of a Cambrian series weekend sometime in Sep consisting of:

Train London Paddington to Bristol Parkway. Roll down to Severn view Travelodge, arriving
Friday evening.

Then on Sat get up 4 am. Do 3A picking Chepstow as start (obviously). Finish in time to go to sleep
at the Travelodge at midnight-ish.

Then get up Sun at 5 am. Do the 2B, once again picking Chepstow as start (obviously). Finish in time
to catch a train back to London from Parkway at around 8 pm.

Does that sound reasonable? Or would that be no, dumb, stupid idea, don't do it. You'd suffer
immensely?