MH370 missing

[Euan Uzami]

Wall Street Journal are sticking to the story of continued data transmission which locate the aircraft in the Andaman Sea. The US are moving a warship to the area, and have given the Indian authorities directions on where to search. The plot thickens.

That's the other thing I don't quite get -why is America sticking its beak in? What's it got to do with them?

[Vince]

I would guess it's protection of national commercial interests.

Can't have expensive 'mercan planes falling out of the sky.

[Cudzoziemiec]

One or two of the southernmost Andaman Islands are inhabited by indigenous people, quite distinct from those in mainland India or other parts of Asia, who not only still gain all their food by hunter-gathering but do not know any method of making fire. The island they live on is otherwise uninhabited and under official protection. The perfect place to start a new civilisation!

[tiermat]

Wall Street Journal are sticking to the story of continued data transmission which locate the aircraft in the Andaman Sea. The US are moving a warship to the area, and have given the Indian authorities directions on where to search. The plot thickens.

That's the other thing I don't quite get -why is America sticking its beak in? What's it got to do with them?

One (or maybe two) of the passengers were 'merkins, that's why.

Plus it's a US built plane, as Wunja says.

[spesh]

I would guess it's protection of national commercial interests.

Can't have expensive 'mercan planes falling out of the sky.

Speaking of commercial interests, IIRC there was a bit of a catfight between the French air accident investigators, Airbus and Air France after the AF447 crash.

I don't suppose anyone has even considered that the US Government is assisting with the search for MH370 for humanitarian reasons?

Or that there is an industry-wide interest in finding out what the hell happened as soon as possible so that lessons can be learned from the episode?

[tiermat]

I would guess it's protection of national commercial interests.

Can't have expensive 'mercan planes falling out of the sky.

Speaking of commercial interests, IIRC there was a bit of a catfight between the French air accident investigators, Airbus and Air France after the AF447 crash.

I don't suppose anyone has even considered that the US Government is assisting with the search for MH370 for humanitarian reasons?

Or that there is an industry-wide interest in finding out what the hell happened as soon as possible so that lessons can be learned from the episode?

Both good points, Spesh.

But, looking at the passenger roster the only countries helping are the ones with passengers on the plane, mainly China.

The UK could send help, but hasn't, same with other European countries. Why? Well because they have no commercial or political interest in the tragedy, that's why.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Might also be because Americans travel around, inside their country, by airplane. So aircraft falling out of the sky is something that makes them all get a bit twitchy. They'd like to know why and not have it happen to them.

[ian]

I'd imagine the US are helping because they have the resources in the area and are as concerned as anyone about a planeload of missing people.

If we're not offering to help it's probably that we don't have the means to genuinely add anything to the resources already being deployed.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The US and China both have big warships with hitech radar and stuff floating around the Pacific and Indian Oceans. Britain doesn't.

[spesh]

I'd imagine the US are helping because they have the resources in the area and are as concerned as anyone about a planeload of missing people.

If we're not offering to help it's probably that we don't have the means to genuinely add anything to the resources already being deployed.

If there are any RN assets in the Indian Ocean, they will most likely to be on anti-piracy duties off the coast of Africa, and given the area that is patrolled, the multinational flotilla deployed there can't spare sending a ship all the way across to the south-east Asian side of the ocean. As already posted, there are sufficient resources in the area, it's more a question of knowing where to look.

[Panoramix]

They may have commercial interests but when there is a catastrophe Americans tend to come and help.

Also the British, Spanish, Italian and the French navy are just a shadow of their old self so it is probable that there is no European anti sub destroyers/frigate nor even a minesweeper there.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Though if the search is now in the Andaman Island region, presumably the Indian Navy will be doing something.

[spesh]

One or two of the southernmost Andaman Islands are inhabited by indigenous people, quite distinct from those in mainland India or other parts of Asia, who not only still gain all their food by hunter-gathering but do not know any method of making fire. The island they live on is otherwise uninhabited and under official protection. The perfect place to start a new civilisation!

Interestingly, South Andaman Island (one of the larger islands in the archipelago) possesses an asphalt runway at Port Blair - the airport is under the control of the Indian Navy and only daytime is allowed.

The airport has a single runway of 3,290 m (10,794 ft) in length, accommodating most narrow-body aircraft, that includes Airbus A320, Airbus A321, Boeing 737, which regularly serve Veer Savarkar airport. An ILS is available for low visibility operations, but pilots are responsible to check with local authorities to verify the system is operational prior to the flight. There is a road across the runway; traffic had to be stopped in order for aircraft to take off, similar to the Gibraltar Airport. Restricted Area Permits for the Andaman and Nicobar Islands are available on entry. Except for the civilian terminal operated by the Airports Authority of India, all other air traffic operations over Port Blair are undertaken by the Indian Navy. The geography makes this a difficult airfield for aircraft, as a hillock at one end means that planes can land or take off only in one direction. Winds change here every six months, so pilots have to either take off or land with strong tail winds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vir_Savarkar_Airport

That said, if a rogue 777 turned up at Port Blair in the middle of the night, you'd think that we might have heard about it by now.

[Ningishzidda]

The plane was hi-jacked by the two passengers who boarded using stolen passports. They intended to suicide crash in Hong Kong.
The hi-jackers disabled all comms systems to effectively fly the plane unseen.

Enroute, the crew and other passengers attempted to overpower the hi-jackers. But alas, the hi-jackers detonated  explosives in the hold which broke the plane up.

A New Zealand Oil rigger saw the burning remains of a fuel tank approx. 300 miles east of the ‘disappearance site’, which was on the flightpath to Hong Kong.

The other remains of the plane are in the South China Sea southeast of the Vietnamese coast.

The Americans are pointing the search toward the west because they and the Malaysians ( and possibly the Vietnamese ) were in partnership to operate a ‘Black-ops’ move to hit China in one of their economic centres, and blame a terrorist organisation for the atrocity, with the aim of causing decline in the Chinese economy.

The Malaysian Authorities are not telling us the truth.


There. Sorted.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

I would guess it's protection of national commercial interests.

Can't have expensive 'mercan planes falling out of the sky.

Speaking of commercial interests, IIRC there was a bit of a catfight between the French air accident investigators, Airbus and Air France after the AF447 crash.

I don't suppose anyone has even considered that the US Government is assisting with the search for MH370 for humanitarian reasons?

Or that there is an industry-wide interest in finding out what the hell happened as soon as possible so that lessons can be learned from the episode?

Both good points, Spesh.

But, looking at the passenger roster the only countries helping are the ones with passengers on the plane, mainly China.

The UK could send help, but hasn't, same with other European countries. Why? Well because they have no commercial or political interest in the tragedy, that's why.

I believe Japan has given assistance without having had passengers aboard.  Remarkable, given relations between China and Japan.

[TimC]

Wall Street Journal are sticking to the story of continued data transmission which locate the aircraft in the Andaman Sea. The US are moving a warship to the area, and have given the Indian authorities directions on where to search. The plot thickens.

That's the other thing I don't quite get -why is America sticking its beak in? What's it got to do with them?

One (or maybe two) of the passengers were 'merkins, that's why.

Plus it's a US built plane, as Wunja says.

As the country of manufacture of the aircraft, the USA has a statutory responsibility to the investigation. They also have the greatest expertise and the greatest resources. They are required to help, and I'm sure they wouldn't dream of withholding whatever assistance they can give.

[Regulator]

I would guess it's protection of national commercial interests.

Can't have expensive 'mercan planes falling out of the sky.

Speaking of commercial interests, IIRC there was a bit of a catfight between the French air accident investigators, Airbus and Air France after the AF447 crash.

I don't suppose anyone has even considered that the US Government is assisting with the search for MH370 for humanitarian reasons?

Or that there is an industry-wide interest in finding out what the hell happened as soon as possible so that lessons can be learned from the episode?

Both good points, Spesh.

But, looking at the passenger roster the only countries helping are the ones with passengers on the plane, mainly China.

The UK could send help, but hasn't, same with other European countries. Why? Well because they have no commercial or political interest in the tragedy, that's why.

Until we know what's happened we can't say who does or doesn't have a commercial or political interest.  If the plane was lost because of a catastrophic or technical failure all countries with significant aircraft manufacturing willhave a commerical and political interest.  If the plane was lost due to terrorism or the deliberate actions of the crew/a crew member, then all countries will have a political interest.

[pcolbeck]

But, looking at the passenger roster the only countries helping are the ones with passengers on the plane, mainly China.

The UK could send help, but hasn't, same with other European countries. Why? Well because they have no commercial or political interest in the tragedy, that's why.

Distance. It takes weeks to get a ship from Europe to the south China sea. All the countries that are local to the disappearance are helping as much as they can plus any that have assets within a reasonable range (eg the US).
Rolls Royce have a team assembled to look at the engines once they find the plane.

[TimC]

In an aircraft accident, the country where the crash occurred has primacy in the investigation, followed by the country of registration then the country of manufacture. If a major component made elsewhere is implicated (such as the engines, which are UK-made) then that national authority and manufacturer must assist with all appropriate and relevant information. As in the loss of a ship, all parties who can MUST assist in the search and rescue operation.

Aviation is not like ordinary politics or diplomacy; there are legal requirements of all parties, and the process is led by the priority of saving lives either now or in the future.

[spesh]

In all fairness, given recent global history it is easy to see why the lay person may think that countries are acting/should act - or not - purely out of narrow self-interest.

[Wascally Weasel]

I think the plane crash landed on some random island – the few survivors are starting to learn strange things about one another and their previous lives, while randomly encountering strange supernatural and inexplicable events.

It will go on for six series and be shit.

[spesh]

I think the plane crash landed on some random island – the few survivors are starting to learn strange things about one another and their previous lives, while randomly encountering strange supernatural and inexplicable events.

It will go on for six series and be shit.

On another forum that I frequent, after the umpteenth allusion to Lost, the mods were getting ready to terminate with extreme prejudice. 

[Wascally Weasel]

I think the plane crash landed on some random island – the few survivors are starting to learn strange things about one another and their previous lives, while randomly encountering strange supernatural and inexplicable events.

It will go on for six series and be shit.

On another forum that I frequent, after the umpteenth allusion to Lost, the mods were getting ready to terminate with extreme prejudice. 

That’s probably a reasonable response.  I kind of preferred ‘Alive’ even though it should have been called ‘Eaten’.

[Euan Uzami]

How many Malaysians do you think are trying to get into the UK to get a job in a car wash?

Exactly. If it was from Iran or Afghanistan then it would have looked a bit suspicious, whereas if they congregate in Malaysia and set off from there, nobody suspects anything.

[mrcharly-YHT]

How many Malaysians do you think are trying to get into the UK to get a job in a car wash?

Exactly. If it was from Iran or Afghanistan then it would have looked a bit suspicious, whereas if they congregate in Malaysia and set off from there, nobody suspects anything.

<slow claps>