Audax start times

[contango]

I've never been involved in organising an event >300k, so cannot comment on those.  But the 300k event I have been involved with uses a pub as the last control before the arrivee.  There really is not a lot of choice in a rural area.  Clearly this puts a limit on how late riders can get there, which equates broadly with a 6am start.  Given that most events seek to avoid conurbations, and thus don't have the luxury of 24-hour shops, this is likely a widespread problem.

All good points, although all that is required is that the start/finish is in an area where there's some means to get a POP. At a push people could get a cash machine receipt, or if there's a landmark with a clock they could take a selfie of themselves against the clock or some such.

The vast majority of riders would rather like some food/drink opportunities at a 300k Arrivée (IIRC this is strongly recommended by AUK). Many would also like somewhere dry/warm, but I accept that's an extra on "X" events.

I would certainly appreciate such things as well, but if a 15-30kph speed band means people could be arriving at the finish at any time within a 10 hour window it seems less unreasonable to say that people who are at one end of the time window may have to use some other POP. Personally I'd say people at the fast end should expect that on the basis they could always ride more slowly. The fact I'm slow has absolutely nothing to do with that stance

[phil d]

Personally I'd say people at the fast end should expect that on the basis they could always ride more slowly. The fact I'm slow has absolutely nothing to do with that stance

That's an interesting comment, as the event I was referring to above (Rural South) effectively used to do just that.  A previous organiser of the event set a 25kph max speed so that he didn't need to return to the hall to service finishers quite so early.  In practice, up to that point no-one had finished any earlier anyway.  I don't think the current organiser has reduced the "normal" max, as we are running a 100 and 200 from the hall on the same day, so there will be someone (me) there all day anyway.

[Revellinho]

tying this in with the BR/BRM debate, can you run a BRM with a 25kph upper limit or is that fixed to 30?

[contango]

Personally I'd say people at the fast end should expect that on the basis they could always ride more slowly. The fact I'm slow has absolutely nothing to do with that stance

That's an interesting comment, as the event I was referring to above (Rural South) effectively used to do just that.  A previous organiser of the event set a 25kph max speed so that he didn't need to return to the hall to service finishers quite so early.  In practice, up to that point no-one had finished any earlier anyway.  I don't think the current organiser has reduced the "normal" max, as we are running a 100 and 200 from the hall on the same day, so there will be someone (me) there all day anyway.

That sort of thing makes sense. I often wonder how many people would be affected by the maximum speed being reduced from 30 to 25kph.

Self-interest aside I reckon if you can get round the course at 30kph you've probably got enough in the tanks to not need the TLC at the finish line, or the option to slow down or wait a while. If you get around the course at 15.1kph it's more likely that you need the TLC at the finish and that going faster isn't a viable option. For what it's worth my overall average speed is usually in the region of 18kph.

[Ian H]

I run the K&SW600 mostly at 25km/h. The exception is the relatively rapid first leg, where the max speed is 27.66666. This allows the control opening time to coincide exactly with the opening of the Crooklets cafe.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I run the K&SW600 mostly at 25km/h. The exception is the relatively rapid first leg, where the max speed is 27.66666. This allows the control opening time to coincide exactly with the opening of the Crooklets cafe.

I believe the Wessex SR series does much the same.  On longer events, especially those with a benign first leg and later difficulties such as the K&SW its unlikely that even the fastest riders willl do 25km/h or even 22km/h by the end but they might cover the first stage or two at close to 30.

Perversely in my experience it is the easier long distance events that have the biggest spread of times.  A quicker rider might aim to finish a flattish 600 by 10am so having some weekend time with family afterwards, whereas those for whom 600km is the utter limit would enter the flattish 600 but wouldn't consider a Brimstone or K&SW.

[frankly frankie]

That sort of thing makes sense. I often wonder how many people would be affected by the maximum speed being reduced from 30 to 25kph.

It's often a big plus for the organiser (especially if he's manning the start and then the first or second control) - but it can be a real drag for quicker riders and I can remember on occasions being made to wait at a chilly night-time control, getting colder and colder when I just needed to get back on the bike and stay warmed up.

That said, I fully agree that anyone riding a sub-18h 400 will have had their fun, out on the road, and won't be particularly bothered about TLC at the finish or anywhere else on the route come to that.

[rabbit]

That sort of thing makes sense. I often wonder how many people would be affected by the maximum speed being reduced from 30 to 25kph.

It could be a real pain even for an 'average to quick' rider if the first and second controls are on an outbound leg with a generous tailwind.  Which of course would result in a horrendous headwind on the way back.  It's nice to make up the time when it's easy going.

[Hummers]

I believe the Wessex SR series does much the same.  On longer events, especially those with a benign first leg and later difficulties such as the K&SW its unlikely that even the fastest riders willl do 25km/h or even 22km/h by the end but they might cover the first stage or two at close to 30.

Perversely in my experience it is the easier long distance events that have the biggest spread of times.  A quicker rider might aim to finish a flattish 600 by 10am so having some weekend time with family afterwards, whereas those for whom 600km is the utter limit would enter the flattish 600 but wouldn't consider a Brimstone or K&SW.

Indeed.

On the Brimstone, the earliest ETA to the first control is based on a maximum speed of 30km/h and opens at around 08:45. It was wet and a couple of fast fellows were delayed but the first rider was through at 09:11am with the last of the 24 riders through before 10:00 am.

H

[caerau]

I got to the first control at 30 kph (actually I think it was a bit quicker - I was still trying to 'win' audaxes at this point) on Dr Foster's Summer Saunter last year only to discover when I got there that the max speed was 25 kph     Nobody seemed bothered that the time was too early when I got back though 


Of course I got horrendously lost towards the end so it was all entirely  pointless going that fast to begin (it was fun though).

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

There was a 100k ride a while back, the Dartmoor and South Hams Imp, where the weather forecast was for a strong southwesterly to close in and blanket the moor.  So a couple of us put the hammer down onto the moor to try to beat the weather.  We got to the first control in Princetown about 10 minutes after it opened, got our cards stamped and then got blown across the moor - doing 20mph on the ascents and close to 50mph on the downhills.  We arrived at the second control, checked our watches, ordered cream teas and ate them, and then got our cards stamped as by then the control had opened.  Oh happy days.  (I think it was a 25kph maximum speed).

[caerau]

I look forward to the day I can get to Weobley on the BCM ahead of schedule

[Rainmaker]

The Dales 400 was a lovely ride, a fast bash up the deserted A19, sustenance at Leeming services then, if you didn't fall off on the level  crossing in Bedale, (sorry Rob) a wonderful ride up Swaledale in the first light of the day.   One of my favourite memories of audaxing was the scent of the wild garlic as you rode up Swaledale in the early morning.
Happy days!

[Rainmaker]

Sorry about the above post, I stand by my remarks but they should have been on a different thread.   OOOPs!

[rob]

The Dales 400 was a lovely ride, a fast bash up the deserted A19, sustenance at Leeming services then, if you didn't fall off on the level  crossing in Bedale, (sorry Rob) a wonderful ride up Swaledale in the first light of the day.   One of my favourite memories of audaxing was the scent of the wild garlic as you rode up Swaledale in the early morning.
Happy days!

I fell off on the way back.....at least I got to enjoy the scenery.    Almost 20 years ago, that.

[Cycling Daddy]

As regards overall costs I am always surprised b how economical Audax is...or can be.  Mostly because of the valiant organisers and volunteers working for no financial gain (thank you).  Mu y son races in National Junior races the budget this year was £12 000 including training camps, physio, equipment etc.  Owing to injury we ended up under budget but however you look at it Audax is outstanding value for money. 

As regards start time I assumed that organisers know what they are doing and just work around what they have kindly set up.  This is confirmed by the many factors that have been set out above...a delicate balancing act
L

[hellymedic]

The Dales 400 was a lovely ride, a fast bash up the deserted A19, sustenance at Leeming services then, if you didn't fall off on the level  crossing in Bedale, (sorry Rob) a wonderful ride up Swaledale in the first light of the day.   One of my favourite memories of audaxing was the scent of the wild garlic as you rode up Swaledale in the early morning.
Happy days!

I fell off on the way back.....at least I got to enjoy the scenery.    Almost 20 years ago, that.

Rob fell at about 3pm on the return IIRC. I was entering the services and he was in a pack that was leaving.
Patrick Field, on a recumbent, also experienced an involuntary dismount.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I believe the Wessex SR series does much the same.  On longer events, especially those with a benign first leg and later difficulties such as the K&SW its unlikely that even the fastest riders willl do 25km/h or even 22km/h by the end but they might cover the first stage or two at close to 30.

Perversely in my experience it is the easier long distance events that have the biggest spread of times.  A quicker rider might aim to finish a flattish 600 by 10am so having some weekend time with family afterwards, whereas those for whom 600km is the utter limit would enter the flattish 600 but wouldn't consider a Brimstone or K&SW.

Just looking back at this thread - I think this year's Brimstone only had a 5 hour spread on finishing times.   That's probably smaller than the typical 200k event.

Indeed.

On the Brimstone, the earliest ETA to the first control is based on a maximum speed of 30km/h and opens at around 08:45. It was wet and a couple of fast fellows were delayed but the first rider was through at 09:11am with the last of the 24 riders through before 10:00 am.

H

[frankly frankie]

I fell off on the way back.....at least I got to enjoy the scenery.    Almost 20 years ago, that.

Rob fell at about 3pm on the return IIRC. I was entering the services and he was in a pack that was leaving.
Patrick Field, on a recumbent, also experienced an involuntary dismount.

Don't tell me people are still falling off at Bedale!
Talk about an accident black grey spot. 

[hellymedic]

I fell off on the way back.....at least I got to enjoy the scenery.    Almost 20 years ago, that.

Rob fell at about 3pm on the return IIRC. I was entering the services and he was in a pack that was leaving.
Patrick Field, on a recumbent, also experienced an involuntary dismount.

Don't tell me people are still falling off at Bedale!
Talk about an accident black grey spot. 

Dunno Francis, we were remembering 1995...

[ETA] Looking at Street View (image 2011) they probably still are. 
http://goo.gl/maps/3uVLB

[frankly frankie]

1985 too.
This was us back then ...

[hellymedic]

Seems there was no rain on that halcyon picture.
The rails which downed rob and Patrick were wet though it was not raining.

[Chris S]

I think if I were organising rides, and depending on the length of the ride, and it's transport links to/from the start, I'd be inclined to offer a rolling start - eg: "Between 6am and 9am", but I have no idea if that's within the AUK roolz.

[Arry-R]

Chris S.  You are spot on "You have no idea"
you need to be an organiser and you will then know all that is involved! !
 

[The Seldom Killer]

No rolling starts although AIUI you can start anywhere up to an hour after the start time. Still have to make the controls in time based on the earliest start time.
No issues with offering multiple starts though and I'm going down this route for next years The Dean.